{"id":3293,"date":"2014-02-19T04:25:33","date_gmt":"2014-02-18T22:25:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/?p=3293"},"modified":"2025-08-24T15:31:01","modified_gmt":"2025-08-24T20:31:01","slug":"torture-part-4","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/?p=3293","title":{"rendered":"Torture, Part 4"},"content":{"rendered":"

Suspecting that my antipathy (and objections) to Jonathan Edwards\u2019 contention that God is the Superlative Torturer<\/a>\u00a0are rooted in my personal history, I need to revisit<\/a> the long name of God for perspective.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n
\n

The Long Name of God<\/p>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n

The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, and abounding in loyal love and faithfulness, keeping loyal love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin.<\/p>\n

Exodus 34:6, 7a (NET)<\/p>\n<\/td>\n

But he by no means leaves the guilty unpunished, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children and children\u2019s children, to the third and fourth generation.<\/p>\n

Exodus 34:7b (NET)<\/p>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

Intellectually, I can see that the things I\u2019ve been looking into in Revelation<\/a> fall under the heading of not leaving the guilty unpunished.\u00a0 Rationally, I can see that this long name is an accurate description of who God is, one unified God.\u00a0 But I don\u2019t know the One who by no means leaves the guilty unpunished, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children and children\u2019s children, to the third and fourth generation<\/i>, not experientially.\u00a0 I deserve to know Him that way.\u00a0 I\u2019ve earned the right, so to speak.\u00a0 But I don\u2019t know Him like that.\u00a0 I know the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, and abounding in loyal love and faithfulness, keeping loyal love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin<\/i>.<\/p>\n

<\/a>Asaph<\/a>[1]<\/sup><\/a> apparently knew God as the One who by no means leaves the guilty unpunished<\/i>.\u00a0 I suffer all day long<\/i>, he wrote, and am punished<\/a> every morning<\/i>.[2]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 Of course he acknowledged that he felt that way when: my feet almost slipped; my feet almost slid out from under me <\/i>(Table<\/a>). \u00a0For I envied those who are proud, as I observed the prosperity of the wicked <\/i>(Table<\/a>).[3]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 And I most felt like Asaph as \u201ca philosophical and legalistic young man fighting my way back from atheism<\/a>,\u201d[4]<\/sup><\/a> obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions,\u00a0useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a\u00a0means of gain<\/i>.[5]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t think I was particularly obsessed with money.\u00a0 I was giving money and continually amazed that I always had enough.\u00a0 I wanted some fame or power or prestige or position, and thought that \u201cobeying\u201d God by striving to keep the law, or the love that is the fulfillment of the law<\/i>[6]<\/sup><\/a> as if Paul\u2019s definition were a list of laws, was a means to that end.\u00a0 I was \u201cpunished\u201d constantly then.\u00a0 But all I really meant by God\u2019s \u201cpunishment,\u201d or his \u201cblessing\u201d for that matter, was how things worked out according to my hopes, my dreams, my plans or my schemes.\u00a0 When things went my way I was \u201cblessed,\u201d and I was \u201cpunished\u201d when they didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n

<\/a>This wasn\u2019t always the case, however.\u00a0 Though I didn\u2019t think in these terms then, at seventeen He who by no means leaves the guilty unpunished, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children and children\u2019s children, to the third and fourth generation<\/i> was the One I worshiped and loved as much as it is possible to love such a One.\u00a0 <\/a>Punishment is the currency of childhood.\u00a0 It\u2019s how one pays for what he wants.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t actually know this God in any experiential way.\u00a0 I believed in Him.\u00a0 He made sense to me.\u00a0 I claimed to believe in Jesus\u2019 salvation.\u00a0 And I suppose I did to some degree, but that was heaven.\u00a0 Heaven was as far away as Disneyland.\u00a0 And my family couldn\u2019t afford Disneyland either.<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t recall knowing the long name of God, but I knew the Ten Commandments: I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me <\/i>[Table<\/a>], but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments <\/i>[Table<\/a>].[7]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 I had no clue that the ones who loved Him and kept his commandments were the ones He had shown mercy.\u00a0 If you had told me it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy<\/a><\/i>,[8]<\/sup><\/a> I wouldn\u2019t have believed you, not by seventeen.\u00a0 I \u201cknew\u201d I didn\u2019t love God enough or keep his commandments enough to \u201cearn\u201d his mercy.\u00a0 That\u2019s why I trusted Jesus for a place in heaven rather than in hell.\u00a0 But as for the rest of it, I \u201cknew\u201d I would pay in punishment.<\/p>\n

<\/a>At seventeen I don\u2019t think I knew the law that reads, If a man entices a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall surely pay the bride-price for her\u00a0to be his wife. \u00a0If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money according to the bride-price of virgins<\/i>.[9]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 I would be hard-pressed to confirm that anyone I knew had ever heard of this law.\u00a0 We believed in the sin of premarital sex<\/a>.\u00a0 I knew the law about rape (Deuteronomy 22:28, 29 NKJV).<\/p>\n

If a man finds a young woman\u00a0who is<\/i> a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out [Table<\/a>]<\/em>, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman\u2019s father fifty shekels<\/i> of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days [Table<\/a>]<\/em>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

This law was impossible to avoid.\u00a0 I read it on different occasions in anti-God and antinomian polemics.\u00a0 I even checked the reference in the Bible to see if it was true; that is, that it was actually in the Bible as the polemicists claimed.\u00a0 One might argue that I should have inferred the former law from the latter.\u00a0 I can\u2019t disagree.\u00a0 <\/a>I wrote[10]<\/sup><\/a> that I had a \u201cphilosophical bent of mind.\u201d\u00a0 While true, it doesn\u2019t mean that I was any good necessarily at doing philosophy.\u00a0 I was embarrassed and frustrated by this law.\u00a0 Why did God force women to marry their rapists?!\u00a0 But neither my embarrassment nor my frustration raised a single question in my mind regarding the validity of the sin of premarital sex.\u00a0 <\/a>I believed in the sin of premarital sex with all my heart, the laws of God notwithstanding.<\/p>\n

Such was the state of my \u201cfaith\u201d when my highschool girlfriend and I fucked<\/a><\/i>[11]<\/sup><\/a> for the first time. \u00a0I don\u2019t use the term fucked<\/i> to be insulting, demeaning or derogatory but in the hope of finding a word in English that will carry the weight of eros<\/i> in Greek.\u00a0 Sexual intercourse<\/i> is about inserting an erect penis into a vagina and thrusting and relaxing to stimulate the nerves in the head of the penis and the clitoris until an explosive pleasure sensation called an orgasm<\/em> is achieved.\u00a0 What I mean by fuck<\/i>, fucked<\/i> or fucking<\/i> has everything to do with sexual intercourse, and nothing to do with it except as an entry portal or an ongoing celebration of a wondrous and unimaginable relationship with another person of the opposite sex, a relationship that artists have spent their lifetimes attempting to capture, celebrate or recreate in music, dance, art, sculpture, poetry and drama.<\/p>\n

Before we fucked<\/i>, my girlfriend and I were two teenagers too shy to remove our underwear as we crawled under the covers.\u00a0 Afterward in the bath together a Bible verse came to mind, And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed<\/i>.[12]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 I felt like I understood that verse for the first time.\u00a0 But it didn\u2019t dissuade me that I would be punished for the sin of premarital sex.<\/p>\n

<\/a>I had some very specific punishments in mind.\u00a0 Pregnancy was top of that list.\u00a0 Obviously children were God\u2019s primary punishment for fucking<\/i>.\u00a0 My Dad had warned me to watch out for women<\/a> who would trick me into caring for their children.[13]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 Protestants were a little wishy-washy on the sin of birth control as a way to avoid God\u2019s punishment for fucking<\/i>, but Catholics were strong and on target on this issue.\u00a0 My girlfriend and I were well-versed in the \u201cBrave New World<\/a>\u201d[14]<\/sup><\/a> and had our Malthusian drill<\/a>[15]<\/sup><\/a> down pat.\u00a0 We never fucked<\/i> without at least one method of contraception, and often two.\u00a0 The idea that a couple might become so impassioned they forgot their Malthusian drill was inconceivable to us.<\/p>\n

Venereal disease was number two on God\u2019s list of punishments for fucking<\/i>.\u00a0 But we were both virgins when we started fucking<\/i>.\u00a0 I had the desire to expand this fucking<\/i> relationship to others, until I actually tried to initiate it.\u00a0 Though I didn\u2019t know the law about seducing virgins intellectually, I felt that law written in my heart when I attempted to fuck<\/i> another virgin.\u00a0 \u201cI returned<\/a> to [my girlfriend] quite contrite actually, confessed my sin and asked for her hand in a much more traditional marriage.\u201d[16]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 But even that didn\u2019t alert me that I might not be punished for the sin of premarital sex.\u00a0 I really don\u2019t think I recognized my aversion to committing adultery as God\u2019s law written in my heart anyway.\u00a0 I probably just thought it was my idea, or that I \u201cloved\u201d my first girlfriend more.<\/p>\n

Finally, death was the punishment I thought most likely for the sin of premarital sex, given that we had outsmarted God twice before.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t think God would, or maybe could<\/i>, kill me outright.\u00a0 Miracles, God breaking the laws of science, were kind of a sketchy issue in my thinking at the time.\u00a0 But Vietnam was a very real possibility.\u00a0 And it would be quite easy for Him to kill me there.\u00a0 When\u00a0the draft lottery all but guaranteed that I would never be drafted,\u00a0I still didn\u2019t suspect that God had no intention of punishing me for the sin of premarital sex.<\/p>\n

One more opportunity comes to mind.\u00a0 Every time we fucked<\/i> in my girlfriend\u2019s bedroom she put three albums on the stereo: Every Picture Tells a Story<\/a><\/i>,[17]<\/sup><\/a> Rod Stewart; Who\u2019s Next<\/a><\/i>,[18]<\/sup><\/a> The Who; and Aqualung<\/a><\/i>,[19]<\/sup><\/a> Jethro Tull.\u00a0 I tolerated Rod Stewart because I loved her.\u00a0 Secretly, I called the album \u201cEvery Picture Tells a Story Donut,\u201d after the repeated line in the title track.\u00a0 Who\u2019s Next<\/i> became more important after she left me for someone else.\u00a0 Aqualung<\/i> made a deep and immediate impression.<\/p>\n

<\/a>The song \u201cWind-Up<\/a>\u201d spoke particularly to me.\u00a0 I learned years later that the only required subject in English public schools was the Bible.\u00a0 That explained why British progressive rock was obsessed with biblical themes.\u00a0 It also made more sense to me why Ian Anderson<\/a>[20]<\/sup><\/a> left school with \u201ctheir God tucked underneath my arm.\u201d[21]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n

So I left there in the morning<\/em>
\nwith their God tucked underneath my arm —<\/em>
\ntheir half-assed smiles and the book of rules.<\/em>
\nSo I asked this God a question<\/em>
\nand by way of firm reply,<\/em>
\nHe said — I’m not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.<\/em>
\nSo to my old headmaster (and to anyone who cares):<\/em>
\nbefore I’m through I’d like to say my prayers —<\/em>
\nI don’t believe you:<\/em>
\nyou had the whole damn thing all wrong —<\/em>
\nHe’s not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

<\/a>Looking back now, I clearly had everything \u201call wrong.\u201d\u00a0 I remember entertaining the notion that God was trying to communicate to me through the words of this song. \u00a0I even went back to the Bible to see if I could find what I had gotten \u201call wrong.\u201d\u00a0 But the Bible said the same thing to me it always said: \u201cGod\u2019ll getcha if you don\u2019t watch out!\u201d \u00a0I decided that there was no way anyone who looked like Ian Anderson<\/a> could possibly know anything that could stand up to two thousand years of Christian theology (no matter how catchy the tune).\u00a0 And there was no way I was going to get out of being punished for the sin of premarital sex.<\/p>\n

Nothing could persuade me otherwise.\u00a0 Even when I wasn\u2019t punished for the sin of premarital sex, nothing clicked, no light bulbs went off.\u00a0 Instead, I felt rationally obligated to become an atheist because God would have punished me for the sin of premarital sex.<\/p>\n

\n
Torture, Part 5<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Solomon’s Wealth, Part 2<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Fear – Numbers, Part 2<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Fear – Deuteronomy, Part 8<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Who Am I? Part 8<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Atonement, Part 2<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Hannah’s Prayer, Part 1<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Fear – Deuteronomy, Part 14<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Who Am I? Part 3<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Fear – Deuteronomy, Part 15<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to A Shadow of the Good Things, Part 7<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to The Lost Son of Perdition, Part 5<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Westworld, Part 4<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to The New Covenant, Part 2<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to The Day of the Lord, Part 1<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Who Am I? Part 14<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to A Shadow of the Good Things, Part 10<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Christ-Centered Preaching, Chapter 4, Part 3<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Introduction-Section Seven<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
Back to Exploration, Part 15<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
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<\/a>[1]<\/sup> 1 Chronicles 15:16-19<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

<\/a>[2]<\/sup> Psalm 73:14 (NET) Table<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[3]<\/sup> Psalm 73:2, 3 (NET)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[4]<\/sup> A Monotonous Cycle, Part 3<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

<\/a>[5]<\/sup> 1 Timothy 6:4b, 5 (NKJV)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

<\/a>[6]<\/sup> Romans 13:10b (NET)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

<\/a>[7]<\/sup> Exodus 20:5b, 6 (NKJV)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

<\/a>[8]<\/sup> Romans 9:16 (NET) Table<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

<\/a>[9]<\/sup> Exodus 22:16, 17 (NKJV)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

<\/a>[10]<\/sup> Jesus’ Artifacts, Part 1<\/a><\/em>; Jesus’ Artifacts, Part 5<\/a><\/em>; Jesus’ Artifacts, Part 7<\/a><\/em>; Jedidiah, Part 3<\/a><\/em>; Romans, Part 1<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[11]<\/sup> Antichrist, Part 1<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[12]<\/sup> Genesis 2:25 (NKJV)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[13]<\/sup> David’s Forgiveness, Part 2<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[14]<\/sup> http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Brave_New_World<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[15]<\/sup> http:\/\/www.bookdrum.com\/books\/brave-new-world\/9780099518471\/glossary.html<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[16]<\/sup> https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/06\/23\/who-am-i-part-3\/<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[17]<\/sup> http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Every_Picture_Tells_a_Story<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

<\/a>[18]<\/sup> http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Who’s_Next<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

<\/a>[19]<\/sup> http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Aqualung_(Jethro_Tull_album)<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[20]<\/sup> http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Ian_Anderson<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/a>[21]<\/sup> http:\/\/www.azlyrics.com\/lyrics\/jethrotull\/windup.html<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Suspecting that my antipathy (and objections) to Jonathan Edwards\u2019 contention that God is the Superlative Torturer\u00a0are rooted in my personal history, I need to revisit the long name of God for perspective. The Long Name of God The Lord, the … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2719,2223],"tags":[2322,958,1545,2323,2319,2324,2320,2321,544],"class_list":["post-3293","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-section-three","category-torture","tag-1-timothy-64-5","tag-deuteronomy-2228-29","tag-exodus-205-6","tag-exodus-2216-17","tag-exodus-346-7","tag-genesis-225","tag-psalm-7314","tag-psalm-732-3","tag-romans-916"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3293","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=3293"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3293\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":27551,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3293\/revisions\/27551"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=3293"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=3293"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=3293"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}