{"id":4331,"date":"2014-10-08T22:08:24","date_gmt":"2014-10-08T16:08:24","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/?p=4331"},"modified":"2022-12-22T13:59:40","modified_gmt":"2022-12-22T19:59:40","slug":"apostles-and-prophets-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/?p=4331","title":{"rendered":"Apostles and Prophets, Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"

As I considered<\/a> the relationship of Moses the prophet and Aaron the priest in Numbers 16<\/a> it occurred to me that my religion all but outlaws apostles and prophets. I even wrote that in the essay.\u00a0 But as I turned to Jesus\u2019 response to the argument he walked down the mount of transfiguration into I thought better of taking on an argument over apostles and prophets in that essay.\u00a0 Still, the urge to do so persisted.<\/p>\n

I suppose that everyone who is called by God, born from above<\/a>[1]<\/sup><\/a> and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit walks down from that experience into 2,000 years of theological arguments with the implicit task of choosing sides or adjudicating between them.\u00a0 Generally, I try to avoid theological arguments.\u00a0 Time to study the Bible is precious.\u00a0 If I spend it on arguments, I am not led by the Holy Spirit but by the people who started the arguments.<\/p>\n

But since I have quipped to friends that one way of viewing Evangelicalism is as a mutiny of pastors and teachers against apostles and prophets I have apparently chosen a side without serious thought or consideration. I\u2019m obligated now to be led around by the nose for a time by those who defend the assertion that apostles and prophets are no longer necessary or authorized by God.<\/p>\n

My starting position was: why would anyone hope to\u00a0be church in a hostile environment without such marvelously gifted people? As usual, once I took the time to formulate a coherent question the Holy Spirit was ready with an answer (Jeremiah 31:33, 34 NET):<\/p>\n

\u201cBut I will make a new covenant with the whole nation of Israel after I plant them back in the land,\u201d says the Lord. \u00a0\u201cI will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds. \u00a0I will be their God and they will be my people. \u00a0People will no longer need to teach their neighbors and relatives to know me. \u00a0For all of them, from the least important to the most important, will know me,\u201d says the Lord. \u00a0\u201cFor I will forgive their sin and will no longer call to mind the wrong they have done\u201d [Table<\/a>]<\/em>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I asked an older friend if these verses were the goal, aim, purpose, end (\u03c4\u1f73\u03bb\u03bf\u03c2<\/a>) of the church, the body of Christ. (My friend doesn\u2019t care much for church<\/em> as a translation of \u1f10\u03ba\u03ba\u03bb\u03b7\u03c3\u1f77\u03b1<\/a>.)\u00a0 The initial response was a qualified, \u201cNo, this is for the nation of Israel<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 But that position softened as Paul\u2019s words came to mind: Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among them and participated in the richness of the olive root<\/em>\u2026[2]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 My own impression that these verses do serve as \u03c4\u1f73\u03bb\u03bf\u03c2 for the \u1f10\u03ba\u03ba\u03bb\u03b7\u03c3\u1f77\u03b1 began to harden as I recalled Paul\u2019s letter to the Ephesians (Ephesians 4:7, 11-13 NET):<\/p>\n

But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of the gift of Christ\u2026.It was he who gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God \u2013 a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ\u2019s full stature.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Prior to this approach I would have lined up the above verses right beside Paul\u2019s mention of the same in his letter to the Corinthians as evidence of an ongoing role for both apostles and prophets (1 Corinthians 12:27, 28 NET):<\/p>\n

Now you are Christ\u2019s body, and each of you is a member of it. \u00a0And God has placed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, gifts of healing, helps, gifts of leadership, different kinds of tongues.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

When I quipped about mutiny <\/em>I had assumed that first<\/em>, second<\/em> and third<\/em> were meant as a ranking of authority.\u00a0 This time I could hear the possibility of a temporal ordering of arrival (and departure?) on the scene.\u00a0 The net effect for me is not unlike voir dire<\/a><\/em>.[3]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n

Many years ago I was impaneled for jury selection on a criminal case. As I sat across from the defendants in the courtroom there wasn\u2019t a single doubt in my mind that they were guilty.\u00a0 How else could they have gotten so far through the system?\u00a0 After the defense attorneys in particular had a go at me during voir dire<\/em> I didn\u2019t have a clue whether the defendants were guilty or not.\u00a0 I can only assume that the prosecutors had a similar impact on any who walked in assuming the defendants were innocent because the police and courts only exist to oppress and victimize black people. Voir dire<\/em> is a very clever procedure for detecting and highlighting bias.<\/p>\n

So I began this investigation with my biases exposed and confused. I typed \u201capostles no longer necessary\u201d into Google and \u201cNo Prophets or Apostles Today<\/a>\u201d[4]<\/sup><\/a> by Lori Eldridge appeared at the top of the list.\u00a0 The first step in her argument was to distinguish between gift<\/em> and office<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n
\n

Gift<\/p>\n<\/td>\n

\n

Office<\/p>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n

\u2026the “gift” of prophecy (defending and speaking forth the ESTABLISHED Word of God)\u2026<\/td>\n\u2026the “Office” of Prophet (speaking forth NEW revelations from God and establishing scripture).<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
The gift of prophecy is still in effect\u2026<\/td>\n\u2026but not the office of Prophet\u2026<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
\n

The same can be said for the gift vs the office of Apostle\u2026<\/p>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n

\u2026and the former to build new churches on that foundation already established.<\/td>\n\u2026the latter being for the purpose to lay the foundation for the Church\u2026<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

The gift<\/em> of apostle and prophet is fairly easy to find in the Bible. But to each one of us grace<\/em> (\u03c7\u1f71\u03c1\u03b9\u03c2<\/a>) was given<\/em> (\u1f10\u03b4\u1f79\u03b8\u03b7, a form of \u03b4\u03af\u03b4\u03c9\u03bc\u03b9<\/a>) according to the measure of the gift<\/em> (\u03b4\u03c9\u03c1\u03b5\u1fb6\u03c2, a form of \u03b4\u03c9\u03c1\u03b5\u03ac<\/a>) of Christ<\/em>.[5]<\/sup><\/a> It was he who gave<\/em> (\u1f14\u03b4\u03c9\u03ba\u03b5\u03bd, another form of \u03b4\u03af\u03b4\u03c9\u03bc\u03b9) some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers<\/em>\u2026[6]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 The office<\/em> of apostle and prophet is a bit more elusive.\u00a0 But to say that there is no office<\/em> of apostle and prophet in the Bible is not quite the same as saying that there was an office<\/em> of apostle and prophet but it exists no longer.\u00a0 So I\u2019ll spend some time trying to track down the meaning of office<\/em> of apostle or prophet.<\/p>\n

And it came to pass, that while<\/em> [a priest<\/em> (\u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b5\u1f7b\u03c2<\/a>) named Zacharias<\/em>[7]<\/sup><\/a>] executed the priest\u2019s office<\/em> (\u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b1\u03c4\u03b5\u1f7b\u03b5\u03b9\u03bd, a form of \u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b1\u03c4\u03b5\u03cd\u03c9<\/a>) before God in the order of his course,\u00a0According to the custom of the priest\u2019s office<\/em> (\u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b1\u03c4\u03b5\u1f77\u03b1\u03c2, a form of \u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b1\u03c4\u03b5\u03af\u03b1<\/a>), his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord<\/em>.[8]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 The concept priest\u2019s office<\/em> is not two words in Greek but one: \u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b1\u03c4\u03b5\u1f7b\u03b5\u03b9\u03bd in the first instance and \u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b1\u03c4\u03b5\u1f77\u03b1\u03c2 in the second.\u00a0 I should point out that \u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b1\u03c4\u03b5\u1f7b\u03b5\u03b9\u03bd was translated serving as priest<\/em> in NKJV and \u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b1\u03c4\u03b5\u1f77\u03b1\u03c2 as of the priesthood<\/em>.\u00a0 There is a trend toward eliminating the word office<\/em> over time.\u00a0 Be that as it may the priest\u2019s<\/em> office<\/em> helps clarify the meaning of office<\/em>.<\/p>\n

The requirements, duties, rights and privileges of priests were spelled out in great detail in the law. The law makes the office<\/em> \u2013 official<\/em>. And those of the sons of Levi who receive the priestly office<\/em> (\u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b1\u03c4\u03b5\u1f77\u03b1\u03bd, another form of \u1f31\u03b5\u03c1\u03b1\u03c4\u03b5\u03af\u03b1) have authorization <\/em>(\u1f10\u03bd\u03c4\u03bf\u03bb\u1f74\u03bd, a form of \u1f10\u03bd\u03c4\u03bf\u03bb\u03ae<\/a>) according to the law to collect a tithe from the people, that is, from their fellow countrymen, although they too are descendants of Abraham<\/em>.[9]<\/sup><\/a> In the New Testament in Modern Speech (MSNT) Hebrews 5:1-4 is translated as follows:<\/p>\n

For every High Priest is chosen from among men, and is appointed to act on behalf of men in matters relating to God, in order to offer both gifts and sin-offerings,\u00a0and must be one who is able to bear patiently with the ignorant and erring, because he himself also is beset with infirmity.\u00a0 And for this reason he is required to offer sin-offerings not only for the people but also for himself.\u00a0 And no one takes this honorable office (\u03c4\u03b9\u03bc\u1f74\u03bd, a form of \u03c4\u03b9\u03bc\u03ae<\/a>)<\/em> upon himself, but only accepts it when called to it by God, as Aaron was.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The KJV translated \u03c4\u03b9\u03bc\u1f74\u03bd as honour<\/em>.\u00a0 The translators of the more recent translation added the concept office<\/em> to that honour<\/em>.\u00a0 But I find no fault with the concept of a priestly office carefully delineated in law.\u00a0 So the question comes to mind, what law authorizes the office<\/em> of apostle?<\/p>\n

Lori Eldridge began as follows:<\/p>\n

The following shows us the requirements of the replacement for Judas:<\/em><\/p>\n

Acts 1:21-26, “Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become A WITNESS WITH US OF HIS RESURRECTION.”<\/strong><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

This quotation is from the NIV. It is preceded by: For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be made desolate, And let no man dwell therein: and, His office<\/em> (\u1f10\u03c0\u03b9\u03c3\u03ba\u03bf\u03c0\u1f74\u03bd, a form of \u1f10\u03c0\u03b9\u03c3\u03ba\u03bf\u03c0\u03ae<\/a>) let another take<\/em>.[10]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 At least that\u2019s how \u1f10\u03c0\u03b9\u03c3\u03ba\u03bf\u03c0\u1f74\u03bd was translated in the ASV and the NKJV.\u00a0 The KJV translated it bishopric<\/em>, and the NIV place of leadership<\/em>.\u00a0 But if I am going to find a law authorizing an office<\/em> of apostle, the word of an apostle seems a likely place to start\u2014on the surface of it.\u00a0 But watch what happens if I expand the context<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Jesus had told Peter, Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait there for what my Father promised, which you heard about from me. \u00a0For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now<\/em>.[11]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 Instead, prior to receiving the Holy Spirit, Peter took it upon himself to replace one of the Apostles Jesus had chosen<\/a>[12]<\/sup><\/a> (Luke 6:12-16 NET).<\/p>\n

Now it was during this time that Jesus went out to the mountain to pray, and he spent all night in prayer to God. \u00a0When morning came, he called his disciples and chose twelve of them, whom he also named apostles: \u00a0Simon (whom he named Peter), and his brother Andrew; and James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

So what did Jesus do? He made a personal appearance on the road to Damascus<\/a> and chose Saul, a Pharisee who persecuted the early believers.\u00a0 I can\u2019t say that Jesus deliberately confounded Peter\u2019s rule for apostle selection, because I believe that God\u2019s prerogative\u2014I will have mercy on whom I have mercy<\/strong><\/em>, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion<\/strong><\/em>[13]<\/sup><\/a>\u2014trumps all law.\u00a0 I can say that Saul was not one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us<\/strong><\/em>, Peter\u2019s stated prerequisite that Ms. Eldridge quoted but did not emphasize in all capital letters: For one of these <\/strong><\/em>(\u1f15\u03bd\u03b1<\/a> \u03c4\u03bf\u1f7b\u03c4\u03c9\u03bd<\/a>) must become <\/strong><\/em>(\u03b3\u03b5\u03bd\u1f73\u03c3\u03b8\u03b1\u03b9,a form of \u03b3\u03af\u03bd\u03bf\u03bc\u03b1\u03b9<\/a>) A WITNESS WITH US OF HIS RESURRECTION<\/strong><\/em>.<\/p>\n

In John\u2019s vision on Patmos the wall of the holy city, Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God<\/em>[14]<\/sup><\/a> was described as having twelve foundations, and on them are the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb<\/em>.[15]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 I wonder if those who believe that Peter created (and limited) the office<\/em> of Apostle as stated in Acts 1:21-26 also believe that Matthias<\/a> will be the twelfth name on those foundations.\u00a0 If it seems like I\u2019m lobbying for Paul, I am not.<\/p>\n

In the past I have lobbied for Paul. But now that I know him better and Jesus through his writing I hope that the twelfth name is Judas Iscariot.\u00a0 I can\u2019t imagine a more beautiful memorial to the grace and mercy of God in Jesus Christ.\u00a0 And I think Paul would agree with me: so that God\u2019s purpose in election would stand, not by works but by his calling<\/em>\u2026[16]<\/sup><\/a> So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy<\/a><\/em>.[17]<\/sup><\/a> For the gifts <\/em>(\u03c7\u03b1\u03c1\u1f77\u03c3\u03bc\u03b1\u03c4\u03b1, a form of \u03c7\u03ac\u03c1\u03b9\u03c3\u03bc\u03b1<\/a>) and the call of God are irrevocable<\/em>.[18]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n

And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: \u201cThe Deliverer will come out of Zion;<\/strong><\/em> he will remove ungodliness from Jacob<\/strong><\/em>. <\/em> And this is my covenant with them<\/strong><\/em>, when I take away their sins.\u201d<\/strong>[19]<\/sup><\/a><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

But perhaps the office of Apostle precedes Peter\u2019s questionable rule as \u1f10\u03c0\u03b9\u03c3\u03ba\u03bf\u03c0\u1f74\u03bd (translated office<\/em> in the ASV) precedes it.\u00a0 I\u2019ll look into that in the next essay.\u00a0 For now I want to wrap-up by saying that this is not an enjoyable pastime for me.<\/p>\n

Lori Eldridge was \u201craised in a cult as a child,\u201d and \u201csaved through Hal Lindsey’s Late Great Planet Earth<\/em>.\u201d[20]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 It seems that she hears or reads sermons or religious writings and the Holy Spirit brings Scripture to mind that contradicts<\/a> what the preacher preached or wrote.\u00a0 Though her faith allows her to declare those the Holy Spirit contradicts false prophets and teachers[21]<\/sup><\/a> and mine does not<\/a>, I might still be better served by trying to befriend her rather than by disputing with her.<\/p>\n

People will no longer need to teach their neighbors and relatives to know me.\u00a0 For all of them, from the least important to the most important, will know me<\/em>, the Lord promised through Jeremiah.\u00a0 It seems fitting here to highlight the equalizing power of the Bible.\u00a0 With it, led by the Holy Spirit, Lori Eldridge challenges prophets and teachers and declares them false.\u00a0 With the Bible, led by the Holy Spirit, I can question the wisdom of Peter\u2019s actions and whether his word established a rule for an office<\/em> of apostle.\u00a0 None of that changes if apostles and prophets are still active (and necessary) in the \u1f10\u03ba\u03ba\u03bb\u03b7\u03c3\u1f77\u03b1.<\/p>\n

Apostles and Prophets, Part 2<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n

<\/a>[1]<\/sup> John 3:3 (NET)<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/a>[2]<\/sup> Romans 11:17 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[3]<\/sup> http:\/\/dictionary.law.com\/Default.aspx?selected=2229<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/a>[4]<\/sup> http:\/\/www.endtime-prophets.com\/noproph.html<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/a>[5]<\/sup> Ephesians 4:7 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[6]<\/sup> Ephesians 4:11 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[7]<\/sup> Luke 1:5 (KJV)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[8]<\/sup> Luke 1:8, 9 (KJV)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[9]<\/sup> Hebrews 7:5 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[10]<\/sup> Acts 1:20 (ASV)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[11]<\/sup> Acts 1:4, 5 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[12]<\/sup> John 6:70, 71 (NET)<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/a>[13]<\/sup> Romans 9:15 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[14]<\/sup> Revelation 21:10 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[15]<\/sup> Revelation 21:14 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[16]<\/sup> Romans 9:11 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[17]<\/sup> Romans 9:16 (NET) Table<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/a>[18]<\/sup> Romans 11:29 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[19]<\/sup> Romans 11:26, 27 (NET)<\/p>\n

<\/a>[20]<\/sup> http:\/\/www.endtime-prophets.com\/statement.html<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/a>[21]<\/sup> http:\/\/www.endtime-prophets.com\/<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

As I considered the relationship of Moses the prophet and Aaron the priest in Numbers 16 it occurred to me that my religion all but outlaws apostles and prophets. I even wrote that in the essay.\u00a0 But as I turned … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2666,2719],"tags":[1219,2574,1290,1866,1220,1744,2573,2572,2569,2571,2575,2576,2570,1628,2577,2300,747,544],"class_list":["post-4331","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-apostles-and-prophets","category-section-three","tag-1-corinthians-1227-28","tag-acts-120","tag-acts-14-5","tag-ephesians-411","tag-ephesians-411-13","tag-ephesians-47","tag-hebrews-51-4","tag-hebrews-75","tag-jeremiah-3133-34","tag-luke-18-9","tag-luke-612-16","tag-revelation-2114","tag-romans-1117","tag-romans-1126-27","tag-romans-1129","tag-romans-911","tag-romans-915","tag-romans-916"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4331","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=4331"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4331\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":19893,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4331\/revisions\/19893"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=4331"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=4331"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=4331"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}