{"id":6077,"date":"2015-08-26T03:33:02","date_gmt":"2015-08-25T21:33:02","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/?p=6077"},"modified":"2023-07-31T08:52:19","modified_gmt":"2023-07-31T13:52:19","slug":"romans-part-58","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/?p=6077","title":{"rendered":"Romans, Part 58"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>In this essay I\u2019ll continue looking at the aftermath of Jesus feeding five thousand plus people in the light of his <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/02\/06\/romans-part-55\/#_authorities\">assessment<\/a> of the <em>Jewish leaders<\/em> (\u1f38\u03bf\u03c5\u03b4\u03b1\u1fd6\u03bf\u03b9, a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-dictionary-2\/#_\u1f38\u03bf\u03c5\u03b4\u03b1\u1fd6\u03bf\u03c2\">\u1f38\u03bf\u03c5\u03b4\u03b1\u1fd6\u03bf\u03c2<\/a>)<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn1\"><sup>[1]<\/sup><\/a> as an answer to how the Father seeking his own is not self-seeking.\u00a0 And ultimately it is a continuing part of my attempt to view\u2014<em>Do not lag in zeal, be enthusiastic in spirit, serve the <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/07\/11\/jedidiah-part-5\/#sdfootnote16sym\">Lord<\/a><\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn2\"><sup>[2]<\/sup><\/a>\u2014as a definition of love (<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-concordance\/#_\u1f00\u03b3\u03ac\u03c0\u03b7\">\u1f00\u03b3\u03ac\u03c0\u03b7<\/a>) rather than as rules.\u00a0 Jesus spoke to those who followed Him <em>not because <\/em>[they]<em> saw miraculous signs<\/em>,<em> but because <\/em>[they]<em> ate all the loaves of bread <\/em>[they]<em> wanted<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn3\"><sup>[3]<\/sup><\/a> after they <em>began complaining about him because he said, \u201cI am the bread that came down from heaven\u201d<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn4\"><sup>[4]<\/sup><\/a> (John 6:43-45 NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Do not complain about me to one another. \u00a0No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. \u00a0It is written in the prophets, \u2018<strong>And they will all be taught by God<\/strong>.\u2019\u00a0 Everyone who hears and learns from <em>(<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-concordance\/#_\u03c0\u03b1\u03c1\u03ac\">\u03c0\u03b1\u03c1\u1f70<\/a>)<\/em> the Father comes to me.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>As I\u2019ve written <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2014\/07\/25\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-8\/#_draws\">elsewhere<\/a> the translation <em>draws<\/em> may be understating the case a bit if I think in terms of the hymn, \u201cSoftly and tenderly Jesus is calling.\u201d<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn5\"><sup>[5]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 The Greek word \u1f11\u03bb\u03ba\u03cd\u03c3\u1fc3 (a form of\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-concordance\/#_\u1f11\u03bb\u03ba\u03cd\u03c9\">\u1f11\u03bb\u03ba\u03cd\u03c9<\/a>) translated <em>draws<\/em> above means something more like <em>drags<\/em> more often than not in the New Testament.\u00a0 <em>No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me<\/em> [drags] <em>him<\/em> gives a little different picture of the situation.<\/p>\n<p>Jesus\u2019 summary of the prophets\u2014\u2018<strong><em>And they will all be taught by God<\/em><\/strong>\u2019\u2014was translated as follows in the KJV: <em>And they shall be all taught of God.\u00a0 Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn6\"><sup>[6]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 To a contemporary ear this may sound like \u201cthey will all be taught about God\u201d and \u201cEveryone who has heard and learned about the Father, comes to Jesus.\u201d\u00a0 The editors of the NKJV, aware of this quirk of contemporary English, clarified the meaning of the text:\u00a0 <em>\u2018And they shall all be taught by God.\u2019<\/em>\u00a0 <em>Therefore everyone who\u00a0has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn7\"><sup>[7]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 And it becomes doubly clear when I recognize that Jesus, the Holy Spirit and John felt the need to include the parenthetical: <em>Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from <\/em>(\u03c0\u03b1\u03c1\u1f70) <em>God \u2013 he has seen the Father<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn8\"><sup>[8]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t want to pass by too quickly without examining Jesus\u2019 summary of the prophets: \u2018<strong><em>And they will all be taught by God.<\/em><\/strong>\u2019\u00a0 A <a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/John+6:45\">note<\/a> in the NET claimed this as a quotation of Isaiah 54:13.\u00a0 So I\u2019ll look at that chapter a bit (Isaiah 54:4-13a NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Don\u2019t be afraid, for you will not be put to shame!\u00a0 Don\u2019t be intimidated, for you will not be humiliated!\u00a0 You will forget about the shame you experienced in your youth; you will no longer remember the disgrace of your abandonment. \u00a0For your husband is the one who made you \u2013 the Lord <em>(<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/hebrew-dictionary\/#_yeh\u00f4v\u00e2h\">y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<\/a><em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em> who commands armies is his name.\u00a0 He is your protector, the Holy One of Israel.\u00a0 He is called \u201cGod <em>(<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/hebrew-dictionary\/#_\u02bc\u0115l\u00f4h\u0131\u0302ym\">\u02bc\u0115l\u00f4h\u0131\u0302ym<\/a><em>, \u05d0\u05dc\u05d4\u05d9)<\/em> of the entire earth.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIndeed, the Lord <em>(<\/em>y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em> will call you back like a wife who has been abandoned and suffers from depression, like a young wife when she has been rejected,\u201d says your God <em>(<\/em>\u02bc\u0115l\u00f4h\u0131\u0302ym<em>, \u05d0\u05dc\u05d4\u05d9\u05da)<\/em>.\u00a0 \u201cFor a short time I abandoned you, but with great compassion I will gather you. \u00a0In a burst of anger I rejected you momentarily, but with lasting devotion I will have compassion on you,\u201d says your protector, the Lord <em>(<\/em>y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cAs far as I am concerned, this is like in Noah\u2019s time, when I vowed that the waters of Noah\u2019s flood would never again cover the earth.\u00a0 In the same way I have vowed that I will not be angry at you or shout at you.\u00a0 Even if the mountains are removed and the hills displaced, my devotion will not be removed from you, nor will my covenant of friendship be displaced,\u201d says the Lord<em> (<\/em>y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em>, the one who has compassion on you.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cO afflicted one, driven away, and unconsoled!\u00a0 Look, I am about to set your stones in antimony\u00a0and I lay your foundation with lapis-lazuli. \u00a0I will make your pinnacles out of gems, your gates out of beryl, and your outer wall out of beautiful stones. \u00a0All your children will be followers of the Lord <em>(<\/em>y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em>\u2026<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><em>And so <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2013\/04\/17\/romans-part-42\/#_all\">all Israel<\/a> will be saved, as it is written: <strong>\u201cThe Deliverer will come out of Zion;<\/strong> <strong>he will remove ungodliness from Jacob<\/strong>.\u00a0 <strong>And this is my covenant with them<\/strong>, <strong>when I take away their sins.\u201d<\/strong><\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn9\"><strong><strong><sup>[9]<\/sup><\/strong><\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cIndeed, a time is coming,\u201d says the Lord <em>(<\/em>y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em>, \u201cwhen I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. \u00a0It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt.\u00a0 For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,\u201d says the Lord <em>(<\/em>y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em>. \u00a0\u201cBut I will make a new covenant with the whole nation of Israel after I plant them back in the land,\u201d says the Lord <em>(<\/em>y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em>.\u00a0 \u201cI will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds.\u00a0 I will be their God <em>(<\/em>\u02bc\u0115l\u00f4h\u0131\u0302ym<em>, \u05dc\u05d0\u05dc\u05d4\u05d9\u05dd)<\/em> and they will be my people.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cPeople will no longer need to teach their neighbors and relatives to know me.\u00a0 For all of them, from the least important to the most important, will know me,\u201d says the Lord <em>(<\/em>y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em>.\u00a0 \u201cFor I will forgive their sin and will no longer call to mind the wrong they have done\u201d <em>[<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/02\/romans-part-6\/#_Table13\">Table<\/a>]<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>The Lord <em>(<\/em>y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em> has made a promise to Israel.\u00a0 He promises it as the one who fixed the sun to give light by day and the moon and stars to give light by night.\u00a0 He promises it as the one who stirs up the sea so that its waves roll.\u00a0 He promises it as the one who is known as the Lord <em>(<\/em>y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<em>, \u05d9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d4)<\/em> who rules over all.<em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn10\"><sup>[10]<\/sup><\/a><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>A <a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/John+6:45\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">note<\/a> in the NET acknowledges that, <em>Everyone who hears and learns from the Father comes to me<\/em>, might have been translated \u201clistens to the Father and learns.\u201d\u00a0 The latter translation actually fits the Greek word order (\u03c0\u1fb6\u03c2 \u1f41 \u1f00\u03ba\u03bf\u03cd\u03c3\u03b1\u03c2 \u03c0\u03b1\u03c1\u1f70 \u03c4\u03bf\u1fe6 \u03c0\u03b1\u03c4\u03c1\u1f78\u03c2 \u03ba\u03b1\u1f76 \u03bc\u03b1\u03b8\u1f7c\u03bd \u1f14\u03c1\u03c7\u03b5\u03c4\u03b1\u03b9 \u03c0\u03c1\u1f78\u03c2 \u1f10\u03bc\u03ad) better than the former.\u00a0 I\u2019m pleasantly surprised that it was translated as it was.<\/p>\n<p>A narrow path is created by 1) <em>No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him<\/em>; 2) \u2018<strong><em>And they will all be taught by God<\/em><\/strong>;\u2019 and 3) <em>Everyone who hears and learns from the Father comes to me<\/em>. \u00a0I definitely relate this to, <em>So then faith\u00a0comes by hearing, and hearing by the <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/20\/romans-part-13\/\">word<\/a><\/em> (\u03c1\u03ae\u03bc\u03b1\u03c4\u03b1, a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-dictionary-2\/#_\u1fe5\u1fc6\u03bc\u03b1\">\u1fe5\u1fc6\u03bc\u03b1<\/a>) <em>of God<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn11\"><sup>[11]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 If everyone who hears from God also learns from God, they will all be taught by God carries a different weight than everyone who hears from God must learn on his own to come to Jesus.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn12\"><sup>[12]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<p>I found a thoughtful sermon online from <a href=\"http:\/\/www.desiringgod.org\/authors\/john-piper\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John Piper<\/a> that accurately portrays the teaching of my religion:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>In\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/John%206.44\" target=\"-blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John 6:44<\/a>, Jesus says, \u201cNo one can come to me unless the Father who sent me\u00a0draws\u00a0him.\u201d And in\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/John%2012.32\" target=\"-blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John 12:32<\/a>, Jesus says, \u201cI will draw all people to myself.\u201d So\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/John%206.44\" target=\"-blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John 6:44<\/a> teaches, I argued last week, that the Father draws people triumphantly to the Son, and all whom he draws come, because the drawing is decisive. And\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/John%2012.32\" target=\"-blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John 12:32<\/a> teaches that Jesus draws all to himself.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn13\"><sup>[13]<\/sup><\/a><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The solution to this dilemma (<em>dilemma<\/em> because my religion rejects the notion of universal salvation) is that <em>all<\/em> in John 12:32 (NET)\u2014<em>And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself<\/em>\u2014does not mean <em>all people<\/em> (<em>people<\/em> is not in the original text).\u00a0 <em>All<\/em> means \u201call the children of God\u201d or \u201call of my sheep.\u201d<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn14\"><sup>[14]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 To my mind this limitation disregards, <em>Let God be proven true, and every human being shown up as a liar, just as it is written:<\/em> \u201c<strong><em>so that you will be justified in your words and will prevail when you are judged<\/em><\/strong>.\u201d<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn15\"><sup>[15]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<p>If the Lord <em>does not wish<\/em>\u00a0(\u03b2\u03bf\u03c5\u03bb\u03cc\u03bc\u03b5\u03bd\u03bf\u03c2, a form of\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-concordance\/#_\u03b2\u03bf\u03cd\u03bb\u03bf\u03bc\u03b1\u03b9\">\u03b2\u03bf\u03cd\u03bb\u03bf\u03bc\u03b1\u03b9<\/a>)<em>\u00a0for any to perish but for all to come to repentance<\/em>,<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn16\"><sup>[16]<\/sup><\/a> we need to consider these \u201ccouplets,\u201d as I think of them, in another way.\u00a0 <em>No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him<\/em>;<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn17\"><sup>[17]<\/sup><\/a> <em>And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn18\"><sup>[18]<\/sup><\/a> \u00a0<em>So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/04\/22\/religious-and-righteous-prayer\/#sdfootnote13sym\">mercy<\/a><\/em>;<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn19\"><sup>[19]<\/sup><\/a> <em>For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn20\"><sup>[20]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 And consider these in the light of his unilateral declaration: <strong><em>I will have mercy on whom I have mercy<\/em><\/strong><em>, <strong>and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion<\/strong><\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn21\"><sup>[21]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<p>All the Lord has to do is declare that these words justify Him to call as many, up to and including <em>all<\/em>, to repentance as He desires and John Piper and I have no way to contradict Him.\u00a0 There are three reasons I won\u2019t go all the way and say I believe in universal salvation: 1) I have no standing to tell the Lord He <em>must<\/em> save all; 2) my own <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2014\/07\/25\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-8\/\">theory<\/a> how this might be possible, that universal salvation entails universal condemnation, while intellectually satisfying, is emotionally horrifying; and 3) it seems to me that the arguments of Scripture lock me out from determining such a thing at the same time they free me to pray for \u201cthe mercy on which everything depends, for it does not depend on human desire or exertion but on You who shows mercy, and You have consigned all to disobedience so that You may show mercy to all.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Jesus continued (John 6:47-51 NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I tell you the solemn truth, the one who believes has eternal life. \u00a0I am the bread of life <em>(\u1f18\u03b3\u03ce \u03b5\u1f30\u03bc\u03b9 \u1f41 \u1f04\u03c1\u03c4\u03bf\u03c2 \u03c4\u1fc6\u03c2 \u03b6\u03c9\u1fc6\u03c2)<\/em>. \u00a0Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. \u00a0This is the bread that has come down from heaven, so that a person may eat from it and not die. \u00a0I am the living bread that came down from heaven.\u00a0 If anyone eats from this bread he will live forever.\u00a0 The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><em>Then the <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/25\/romans-part-57\/\">\u1f38\u03bf\u03c5\u03b4\u03b1\u1fd6\u03bf\u03b9<\/a> <em>began to argue with one another, \u201cHow can this man give us his flesh to eat?\u201d<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn22\"><sup>[22]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 The Church\u2019s answer to their question was <a href=\"http:\/\/study.com\/academy\/lesson\/catholic-doctrine-of-transubstantiation-definition-lesson-quiz.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Transubstantiation<\/a>.\u00a0 If Transubstantiation is Jesus\u2019 answer, too, then He might have said: \u201cYou will walk to the front of the congregation and kneel before the priest who will give you a morsel of bread and a sip of wine, the substance of which he has changed into my literal body and blood respectively, but it will still look and taste like bread and wine.\u201d\u00a0 And I\u2019ll read what He actually said in that light (John 6:53-58 NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I tell you the solemn truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. \u00a0The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/06\/romans-part-8\/#sdfootnote5sym\">and I<\/a> will raise him up <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/06\/romans-part-8\/#sdfootnote6sym\">on<\/a> the last day. \u00a0For my flesh is <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/06\/romans-part-8\/#sdfootnote7sym\">true<\/a> food, and my blood is <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/06\/romans-part-8\/#sdfootnote7sym\">true<\/a> drink <em>[<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/06\/romans-part-8\/#_Table1\">Table<\/a>]<\/em>. \u00a0The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me, and I in him. \u00a0Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so the one who consumes me will live because of me. \u00a0This is the bread that came down from heaven; it is not like the bread your ancestors ate, but then later died. \u00a0The one who eats this bread will live forever.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>In this case I would assume that Jesus deliberately used offensive language to thin the herd of his followers.\u00a0 If, on the other hand, I believe that Jesus\u2019 answer to their question\u2014<em>How can this man give us his flesh to eat?<\/em>\u2014came later in the text when He spoke privately with his disciples, I will have a different perspective: <em>The Spirit is the one who gives life; human nature<\/em> (<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-concordance\/#_\u03c3\u03ac\u03c1\u03be\">\u03c3\u1f70\u03c1\u03be<\/a>)<em> is of no help!<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn23\"><sup>[23]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 <em>The words <\/em>(\u03c1\u03ae\u03bc\u03b1\u03c4\u03b1, a form of \u1fe5\u1fc6\u03bc\u03b1)<em> that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn24\"><sup>[24]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<p>I may still wonder if He spoke something like a parable that may have been misunderstood by others, that He explained to his core disciples, but I also recognize that He spoke of something deeper than my ability to learn in my natural self from spiritual teaching.\u00a0 And I recall that the concept of eating the words of God was familiar to Jesus\u2019 audience (Ezekiel 3:1-4 NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>He said to me, \u201cSon of man, eat what you see in front of you \u2013 eat this scroll \u2013 and then go and speak to the house of Israel.\u201d \u00a0So I opened my mouth and he fed me the scroll.<\/p>\n<p>He said to me, \u201cSon of man, feed your stomach and fill your belly with this scroll I am giving to you.\u201d \u00a0So I ate it, and it was sweet like honey in my mouth.<\/p>\n<p>He said to me, \u201cSon of man, go to the house of Israel and speak my words to them.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>In this case his hearers may not have been offended because they thought Jesus spoke of cannibalism.\u00a0 They understood his allusion.\u00a0 They were offended because Jesus didn\u2019t hand them the law of Moses to eat, but Himself and his own teaching as the Spirit words to be ingested.\u00a0 They rejected Him not because they were confused but because they understood Him perfectly and their hearts were hardened (Ezekiel 3:5-7 NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech and difficult language, but to the house of Israel \u2013 not to many peoples of unintelligible speech and difficult language, whose words you cannot understand \u2013 surely if I had sent you to them, they would listen to you! \u00a0But the house of Israel is unwilling to listen to you, because they are not willing to listen to me, for the whole house of Israel is hard-headed and hard-hearted.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><em>\u00a0After this many of his disciples quit following him and did not accompany him any longer. \u00a0So Jesus said to the twelve, \u201cYou don\u2019t want to go away too, do you?\u201d<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn25\"><sup>[25]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Simon Peter answered him, <em>\u201cLord, to whom would we go?\u00a0 You have the words<\/em> (\u03c1\u03ae\u03bc\u03b1\u03c4\u03b1, a form of \u1fe5\u1fc6\u03bc\u03b1)<em> of eternal life. \u00a0We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God!\u201d<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn26\"><sup>[26]<\/sup><\/a><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p>If Jesus were only seeking those who <em>have come to believe and to know that <\/em>[He is]<em> the Holy One of God<\/em>, then I\u2019m not sure if that would be self-serving or not.\u00a0 If He is serious about seeking those who are his own in name only but in actual point of fact are hardened and reject Him, it is clear that seeking his own is not self-seeking, but clearly an act of the love that <em>is not self-serving<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/08\/26\/romans-part-58\/#_ftn27\"><sup>[27]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2015\/09\/03\/romans-part-59\/\"><em>Romans, Part 59<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><\/div>\n<hr align=\"left\" size=\"1\" width=\"33%\" \/>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn1\"><\/a><sup>[1]<\/sup> <a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/John+5:16\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John 5:16-47 (NET)<\/a><em> Now because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders<\/em> (<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-dictionary-2\/#_\u1f38\u03bf\u03c5\u03b4\u03b1\u1fd6\u03bf\u03c2\">\u1f38\u03bf\u03c5\u03b4\u03b1\u1fd6\u03bf\u03b9<\/a>) <em>began persecuting <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/11\/romans-part-11\/#sdfootnote17sym\">him<\/a><\/em> (verse 16) [<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/11\/romans-part-11\/#_Table6\">Table<\/a>].<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn2\"><\/a><sup>[2]<\/sup> Romans 12:11 (NET) <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/07\/11\/jedidiah-part-5\/#_Table17\">Table<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn3\"><\/a><sup>[3]<\/sup> John 6:26 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn4\"><\/a><sup>[4]<\/sup> John 6:41 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn5\"><\/a><sup>[5]<\/sup> <a href=\"http:\/\/library.timelesstruths.org\/music\/Softly_and_Tenderly\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">http:\/\/library.timelesstruths.org\/music\/Softly_and_Tenderly\/<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn6\"><\/a><sup>[6]<\/sup> John 6:45 (KJV)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn7\"><\/a><sup>[7]<\/sup> John 6:45 (NKJV)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn8\"><\/a><sup>[8]<\/sup> John 6:46 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn9\"><\/a><sup>[9]<\/sup> Romans 11:26, 27 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn10\"><\/a><sup>[10]<\/sup> Jeremiah 31:31-35 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn11\"><\/a><sup>[11]<\/sup> Romans 10:17 (NKJV)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn12\"><\/a><sup>[12]<\/sup> Even the KJV translators chose this path: <em>Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me<\/em> (<a href=\"http:\/\/www.kingjamesbibleonline.org\/John-6-45\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John 6:45b KJV<\/a>).\u00a0 <em>Therefore everyone who has heard and learned<\/em><em>\u00a0<\/em><em>from the Father comes to Me<\/em> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=John+6%3A45&amp;version=NKJV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John 6:45b NKJV<\/a>).\u00a0 I\u2019m afraid I would have assumed in the past that <em>learned<\/em> was my own work, to blunt the impact of <strong><em>And they will all be taught by God <\/em><\/strong>(e.g., only those who learned by whatever wisdom or virtue they possessed innately would benefit from being taught by God or having heard from God).<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn13\"><\/a><sup>[13]<\/sup> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.desiringgod.org\/messages\/they-will-all-be-taught-of-god\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">http:\/\/www.desiringgod.org\/messages\/they-will-all-be-taught-of-god<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn14\"><\/a><sup>[14]<\/sup> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.desiringgod.org\/messages\/they-will-all-be-taught-of-god\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">http:\/\/www.desiringgod.org\/messages\/they-will-all-be-taught-of-god<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn15\"><\/a><sup>[15]<\/sup> Romans 3:4 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn16\"><\/a><sup>[16]<\/sup> 2 Peter 3:9b (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn17\"><\/a><sup>[17]<\/sup> John 6:44a (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn18\"><\/a><sup>[18]<\/sup> John 12:32 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn19\"><\/a><sup>[19]<\/sup> Romans 9:16 (NET) <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/04\/22\/religious-and-righteous-prayer\/#_Table4\">Table<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn20\"><\/a><sup>[20]<\/sup> Romans 11:32 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn21\"><\/a><sup>[21]<\/sup> Romans 9:15 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn22\"><\/a><sup>[22]<\/sup> John 6:52 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn23\"><\/a><sup>[23]<\/sup> \u1f21 \u03c3\u1f70\u03c1\u03be \u03bf\u1f50\u03ba \u1f60\u03c6\u03b5\u03bb\u03b5\u1fd6 \u03bf\u1f50\u03b4\u03ad\u03bd appears almost as a double negative: \u201cthe flesh, no, it assists (is useful, advantageous or profitable, to) no one.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn24\"><\/a><sup>[24]<\/sup> John 6:63 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn25\"><\/a><sup>[25]<\/sup> John 6:66, 67 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn26\"><\/a><sup>[26]<\/sup> John 6:68, 69 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn27\"><\/a><sup>[27]<\/sup> 1 Corinthians 13:5 (NET)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this essay I\u2019ll continue looking at the aftermath of Jesus feeding five thousand plus people in the light of his assessment of the Jewish leaders (\u1f38\u03bf\u03c5\u03b4\u03b1\u1fd6\u03bf\u03b9, a form of \u1f38\u03bf\u03c5\u03b4\u03b1\u1fd6\u03bf\u03c2)[1] as an answer to how the Father seeking his &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/?p=6077\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1736,3117,3116,20,2719],"tags":[990,826,2891,2892,2886,2887,2527,919,2883,2526,2884,2885,2888,2889,2890,847,2893,2894,1057,1628,1694,2067,553,747,544],"class_list":["post-6077","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-chapter-12","category-do-not-lag-in-zeal","category-love","category-romans","category-section-three","tag-1-corinthians-135","tag-2-peter-39","tag-ezekiel-31-4","tag-ezekiel-35-7","tag-isaiah-544-13","tag-jeremiah-3131-35","tag-john-1232","tag-john-516","tag-john-643-45","tag-john-644","tag-john-645","tag-john-646","tag-john-647-51","tag-john-652","tag-john-653-58","tag-john-663","tag-john-666-67","tag-john-668-69","tag-romans-1017","tag-romans-1126-27","tag-romans-1132","tag-romans-1211","tag-romans-34","tag-romans-915","tag-romans-916"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6077","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=6077"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6077\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":21511,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6077\/revisions\/21511"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=6077"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=6077"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=6077"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}