{"id":6909,"date":"2016-07-04T06:20:04","date_gmt":"2016-07-04T00:20:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/?p=6909"},"modified":"2023-03-31T18:22:28","modified_gmt":"2023-03-31T23:22:28","slug":"condemnation-or-judgment-part-16","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/?p=6909","title":{"rendered":"Condemnation or Judgment? &#8211; Part 16"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Paul wrote believers in Colossae (Colossians 3:1-6 NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Therefore, if you have been raised with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. \u00a0Keep thinking about things above, not things on the earth, for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. \u00a0When Christ (who is your life) appears, then you too will be revealed in glory with him. \u00a0So put to death whatever in your nature belongs to the earth: sexual immorality, impurity, shameful passion, evil desire, and greed which is idolatry. \u00a0Because of these things the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>A note (<a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/Colossians+3:6\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">4<\/a>) at the end of this passage in the NET reads:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>The words \u1f10\u03c0\u1f76 \u03c4\u03bf\u1f7a\u03c2 \u03c5\u1f31\u03bf\u1f7a\u03c2 \u03c4\u1fc6\u03c2 \u1f00\u03c0\u03b5\u03b9\u03b8\u03b5\u03af\u03b1\u03c2 (&#8230;\u201con the sons of disobedience\u201d) are lacking in \u00cc<sup>46<\/sup>\u00a0[correct symbol won&#8217;t display] B b sa, but are found in \u05d0 A C D F G H I \u03a8 075 0278 33 1739 1881 \u00cf lat sy bo. The words are omitted by several English translations (NASB, NIV, ESV, TNIV). This textual problem is quite difficult to resolve. On the one hand, the parallel account in Eph 5:6 has these words, thus providing scribes a motive for adding them here. On the other hand, the reading without the words may be too hard: The \u1f10\u03bd \u03bf\u1f37\u03c2 (<\/em>en hois<em>) of v. 7 seems to have no antecedent without \u03c5\u1f31\u03bf\u03cd\u03c2 already in the text, although it could possibly be construed as neuter referring to the vice list in v. 5. Further, although the witness of B is especially important, there are other places in which B and \u00cc<sup>46<\/sup>\u00a0[ditto above] share errant readings of omission. Nevertheless, the strength of the internal evidence against the longer reading is at least sufficient to cause doubt here. The decision to retain the words in the text is less than certain.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><a id=\"_present\"><\/a>Whether the words <em>sons of disobedience<\/em> were original\u00a0or not is immaterial to me.\u00a0 I\u2019m more concerned with \u03b4\u03b9\u1fbf \u1f03 \u1f14\u03c1\u03c7\u03b5\u03c4\u03b1\u03b9 \u1f21 \u1f40\u03c1\u03b3\u1f74 \u03c4\u03bf\u1fe6 \u03b8\u03b5\u03bf\u1fe6 (\u201cBecause of these things the wrath of God is coming\u201d).\u00a0 First, \u1f14\u03c1\u03c7\u03b5\u03c4\u03b1\u03b9 (a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-concordance\/#_\u1f14\u03c1\u03c7\u03bf\u03bc\u03b1\u03b9\">\u1f14\u03c1\u03c7\u03bf\u03bc\u03b1\u03b9<\/a>) is <a href=\"http:\/\/www.perseus.tufts.edu\/hopper\/morph?l=e)%2Frxetai&amp;la=greek\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">present tense<\/a>; <em>appears<\/em> or <em>shows itself<\/em> might be a better translation.\u00a0 Though <em>because <\/em>is a possible translation of \u03b4\u03b9\u1fbf<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn1\"><sup>[1]<\/sup><\/a> (a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-dictionary-2\/#_\u03b4\u03b9\u03ac\">\u03b4\u03b9\u03ac<\/a>), <em>through <\/em>would be more common (verse <a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/Colossians+3:17\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">17<\/a>) and more in line with Paul\u2019s teaching in the opening of <a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/Romans+1:18\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Romans<\/a>, <em>the wrath of God<\/em>\u2026<em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/02\/romans-part-6\/\">revealed from heaven<\/a><\/em>.\u00a0 So I would translate it, \u201cthrough these (e.g., sexual immorality, impurity, shameful passion, evil desire, and greed which is idolatry) the wrath of God appears\u201d or \u201cshows itself.\u201d\u00a0 In other words, these are the evidence or symptoms of the depraved, unapproved, reprobate or <em>debased mind<\/em> to which God gave those over who <em>did not like to retain God in\u00a0their knowledge<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn2\"><sup>[2]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<p>God\u2019s wrath was to give <em>them over to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn3\"><sup>[3]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 Paul enumerated <em>what should not be done<\/em> for believers in Rome (Romans 1:29-32 NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>They are filled with every kind of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/02\/romans-part-6\/#sdfootnote16sym\">unrighteousness<\/a>, wickedness, covetousness, malice. \u00a0They are rife with envy, murder, strife, deceit, hostility. \u00a0They are gossips <em>[<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/02\/romans-part-6\/#_Table21\">Table<\/a>]<\/em>, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, contrivers of all sorts of evil, disobedient to parents, senseless, covenant-breakers, <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/02\/romans-part-6\/#sdfootnote17sym\">heartless<\/a>, ruthless <em>[<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/08\/02\/romans-part-6\/#_Table22\">Table<\/a>]<\/em>. \u00a0Although they fully know God\u2019s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but also approve of those who practice them.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>A young mother put it this way on Facebook:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>Parent shaming.\u00a0 Judging.\u00a0 Close mindedness.\u00a0 Mass murders.\u00a0 Hate on Nationalities.\u00a0 Hate on skin colors.\u00a0 Hate on LGBT\u2019s.\u00a0 Hate on parenting.\u00a0 Hate.\u00a0 I can honestly say I\u2019m worried to bring my children up in the type of society we\u2019ve become.\u00a0 What will it take to change?\u00a0 Will it get better before it gets worse?\u00a0 I have to believe there\u2019s more love in this world than hate.\u00a0 Incredibly saddening that my happy, loving boys will one day learn the world is so ugly and destructive.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Even if <em>sons of disobedience<\/em> wasn\u2019t original I don\u2019t see why \u1f10\u03bd \u03bf\u1f37\u03c2 or \u1f10\u03bd \u03c4\u03bf\u1f7b\u03c4\u03bf\u03b9\u03c2 are \u201ctoo hard\u201d of a reading.\u00a0 Paul\u2019s contrast was to the lives the Colossians lived before they <em>died and<\/em> [their] <em>life <\/em>[was] <em>hidden with Christ in God<\/em>, not to some mysterious others called the <em>sons of disobedience<\/em>.\u00a0 Even Ephesians reads \u03b4\u03b9\u1f70 \u03c4\u03b1\u1fe6\u03c4\u03b1 \u03b3\u1f70\u03c1 \u1f14\u03c1\u03c7\u03b5\u03c4\u03b1\u03b9 \u1f21 \u1f40\u03c1\u03b3\u1f74 \u03c4\u03bf\u1fe6 \u03b8\u03b5\u03bf\u1fe6 \u1f10\u03c0\u1f76 \u03c4\u03bf\u1f7a\u03c2 \u03c5\u1f31\u03bf\u1f7a\u03c2 \u03c4\u1fc6\u03c2 \u1f00\u03c0\u03b5\u03b9\u03b8\u03b5\u1f77\u03b1\u03c2 (<em>for because of these things God\u2019s wrath comes on the sons of disobedience<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn4\"><sup>[4]<\/sup><\/a>).\u00a0 But again \u03b4\u03b9\u1f70 could be <em>through<\/em>, \u03c4\u03b1\u1fe6\u03c4\u03b1 refers back to the <em>person who is immoral, impure, or greedy<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn5\"><sup>[5]<\/sup><\/a> (probably\u00a0<em>immorality<\/em>, <em>impurity<\/em> or <em>greed<\/em>) and \u1f14\u03c1\u03c7\u03b5\u03c4\u03b1\u03b9 is present tense, <em>appears <\/em>or <em>shows itself<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>So I would understand it more like, \u201cFor through these [immoral, impure or greedy persons, or immorality, impurity or greed] the wrath of God shows itself upon the sons of disobedience.\u201d\u00a0 The <em>sons of disobedience<\/em> are no longer a mystery. \u00a0The Greek word translated <em>disobedience<\/em> is \u1f00\u03c0\u03b5\u03b9\u03b8\u03b5\u1f77\u03b1\u03c2 (a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-concordance\/#_\u1f00\u03c0\u03b5\u03af\u03b8\u03b5\u03b9\u03b1\">\u1f00\u03c0\u03b5\u03af\u03b8\u03b5\u03b9\u03b1<\/a>). \u00a0<em>God has consigned all people to <a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/Romans+11:32\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">disobedience<\/a><\/em> (\u1f00\u03c0\u03b5\u1f77\u03b8\u03b5\u03b9\u03b1\u03bd, another form of \u1f00\u03c0\u03b5\u03af\u03b8\u03b5\u03b9\u03b1) <em>so that he may show mercy to them all<\/em>. \u00a0The <em>sons of disobedience<\/em> are old humans, they have not been <em><a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/John+3:3\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">born from above<\/a><\/em>: <em>Therefore do not be partakers with them, for you were at one time darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.\u00a0 Walk as children of the light<\/em>\u2026<sup><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn6\">[6]<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0<\/sup>Paul made this same contrast between the <em>old<\/em> human (\u03c0\u03b1\u03bb\u03b1\u03b9\u1f78\u03bd \u1f04\u03bd\u03b8\u03c1\u03c9\u03c0\u03bf\u03bd) and the <em>new<\/em> (\u03bd\u1f73\u03bf\u03bd, a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-dictionary-2\/#_\u03bd\u03ad\u03bf\u03c2\">\u03bd\u03ad\u03bf\u03c2<\/a>) for the Colossians (3:7-11 NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>You also lived your lives in this way at one time, when you used to live among them <em>(\u1f10\u03bd \u03c4\u03bf\u1f7b\u03c4\u03bf\u03b9\u03c2; literally \u201cin these\u201d)<\/em>. \u00a0But now, put off all such things as anger, rage, malice, slander, abusive language from your mouth. \u00a0Do not lie to one another since you have put off the old <em>(\u03c0\u03b1\u03bb\u03b1\u03b9\u1f78\u03bd, a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-dictionary-2\/#_\u03c0\u03b1\u03bb\u03b1\u03b9\u03cc\u03c2\">\u03c0\u03b1\u03bb\u03b1\u03b9\u03cc\u03c2<\/a>)<\/em> man <em>(\u1f04\u03bd\u03b8\u03c1\u03c9\u03c0\u03bf\u03bd, a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-concordance\/#_\u1f04\u03bd\u03b8\u03c1\u03c9\u03c0\u03bf\u03c2\">\u1f04\u03bd\u03b8\u03c1\u03c9\u03c0\u03bf\u03c2<\/a>)<\/em> with its practices and have been clothed with the new man that is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of the one who created it. \u00a0Here there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all and in all.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I think the Bible has been translated by those who expect most people to spend eternity in the lake of fire.\u00a0 I don\u2019t intend to dispute that view.\u00a0 On the contrary, the idea I\u2019m experimenting with here is that all <em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/06\/15\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-15\/#_old\">old humans<\/a><\/em> are condemned to spend eternity in the <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2014\/07\/25\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-8\/#_condemnation\">lake of fire<\/a>.\u00a0 How many <em>new humans<\/em> spend eternity with Jesus and his Father?\u00a0 That depends on God\u2019s mercy\u2014<strong><em>I will have mercy on whom I have mercy<\/em><\/strong><em>, <strong>and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion<\/strong><\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn7\"><sup>[7]<\/sup><\/a>\u2014up to and including all\u2014<em>For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn8\"><sup>[8]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m a long way, however, from accepting <a href=\"http:\/\/www.christianuniversalist.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Universalism<\/a>, demanding that He save all.\u00a0 <em>Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners<\/em>,<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn9\"><sup>[9]<\/sup><\/a> was a perfect opportunity to specify <em>few<\/em>, <em>many<\/em> or <em>all<\/em>.\u00a0 Neither Paul nor the Holy Spirit chose to do so.\u00a0 <a id=\"_fixation\"><\/a><em>Enter through the narrow gate<\/em>, Jesus said, <em>because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. \u00a0But the gate is narrow and the way is difficult <\/em>(\u03c4\u03b5\u03b8\u03bb\u03b9\u03bc\u03bc\u1f73\u03bd\u03b7, a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-dictionary-2\/#_\u03b8\u03bb\u03af\u03b2\u03c9\">\u03b8\u03bb\u03af\u03b2\u03c9<\/a>) <em>that leads to life, and there are few who find it<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn10\"><sup>[10]<\/sup><\/a> \u00a0In the past I took this to mean that ultimately relatively few will be saved.\u00a0 Now I think differently.<\/p>\n<p>Since <em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/hebrew-dictionary\/#_yeh\u00f4v\u00e2h\">y<sup>e<\/sup>h\u00f4v\u00e2h<\/a><\/em> informed Cain, <em>you must subdue<\/em> [sin],<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn11\"><sup>[11]<\/sup><\/a> and Moses commanded Israel to <em>choose life<\/em>,<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn12\"><sup>[12]<\/sup><\/a> salvation was determined by the desire, or willingness, of human beings, <em>whosoever will<\/em>.\u00a0 The result, <em>there are few who find it<\/em>, is what Jesus became human to change.\u00a0 Someone asked Him directly,<em> \u201cLord, will only a few be saved?\u201d \u00a0<\/em>Speaking in real time before his crucifixion and resurrection, He said,<em> \u201cExert every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able<\/em> (\u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u1f7b\u03c3\u03bf\u03c5\u03c3\u03b9\u03bd, a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-dictionary-2\/#_\u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u03cd\u03c9\">\u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u03cd\u03c9<\/a>) <em>to.\u00a0 Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, then you will stand outside and start to knock on the door and beg him, \u2018Lord, let us in!\u2019 \u00a0But he will answer you, \u2018I don\u2019t know where you come from.\u2019\u201d<\/em> <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn13\"><sup>[13]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 <em>I tell you the solemn truth, <\/em>Jesus also said, <em>I am the door for the sheep.<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn14\"><sup>[14]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 As I considered both of these together I wondered what door <em>the head of the house gets up and shuts<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Surely, it was not Jesus but <em>whosoever will<\/em>.\u00a0 The most immediate reason why the many could not enter was the shut door, but a survey of the word \u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u03cd\u03c9 suggests they were not good enough,<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn15\"><sup>[15]<\/sup><\/a> not strong enough,<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn16\"><sup>[16]<\/sup><\/a> not healthy enough,<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn17\"><sup>[17]<\/sup><\/a> not vigilant enough<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn18\"><sup>[18]<\/sup><\/a> and they would not endure long enough<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn19\"><sup>[19]<\/sup><\/a> in their own strength.\u00a0 And so Jesus became the door.\u00a0 <em>No one can come to me<\/em>, He said,<em> unless the Father who sent me draws him<\/em>\u2026<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn20\"><sup>[20]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 <em>And I<\/em>, Jesus promised, <em>when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn21\"><sup>[21]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_sacrosanct\"><\/a>I\u2019ve written <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2014\/07\/25\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-8\/#_draws\">elsewhere<\/a> what I think about the Greek words translated <em>draws <\/em>and<em> draw\u00a0<\/em>relative to \u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/www.hymnary.org\/text\/softly_and_tenderly_jesus_is_calling\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Softly and tenderly Jesus is calling<\/a>.\u201d\u00a0 And I don\u2019t think much of the old human\u2019s <em>free<\/em> will in any sense beyond contingent choices.\u00a0\u00a0 I certainly don\u2019t think it is sacrosanct to God.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t sacrosanct when He gave old humans over <em>in the desires of their hearts to impurity<\/em>,<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn22\"><sup>[22]<\/sup><\/a> <em>to dishonorable passions<\/em>,<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn23\"><sup>[23]<\/sup><\/a> and <em>to a depraved mind<\/em>.<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn24\"><sup>[24]<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0 Why should it be sacrosanct when one is born from above, <em>not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband\u2019s decision, but by God<\/em>?<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2016\/07\/04\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-16\/#_ftn25\"><sup>[25]<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Nor can I embrace <a href=\"http:\/\/www.patristicuniversalism.com\/Patristic%20Study%20Guide.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">patristic universalism<\/a>. \u00a0I can\u2019t believe in a purgatorial hell.\u00a0 In fact, I think the Old Testament narrates how God has gone out of his way to demonstrate over and over again that the best that is ever achieved by punishment, or by the fear of punishment, is <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2014\/06\/10\/condemnation-or-judgment-part-7\/\">hypocrisy<\/a>.\u00a0 Jesus said (John 3:<a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/05\/14\/a-monotonous-cycle-part-2\/#_Table2\">5<\/a>-7, <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/05\/17\/a-monotonous-cycle-part-5\/#_Table1\">10<\/a> NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.\u00a0 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.\u00a0 Do not be amazed that I said to you, \u2018You must all be born from above.\u2019\u2026Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you don\u2019t understand these things?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/John_Wesley_Hanson\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">J.W. Hanson<\/a> painted the early universalist church fathers as elitists in his book\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/archive.org\/stream\/universalismprev00hans#page\/n7\/mode\/2up\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years<\/a> (p. 56):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>Some of the fathers who had achieved a faith in Universalism, were influenced by the mischievous notion that it was to be held esoterically, cherished in secret, or only communicated to the chosen few,&#8211;withheld from the multitude, who would not appreciate it, and even that the opposite error would, with some sinners, be more beneficial than the truth&#8230;.Origen said that &#8220;all that might be said on this theme is not expedient to explain now, or to all. \u00a0For the mass need no further teaching on account of those who hardly through the fear of aeonian punishment restrain their recklessness.&#8221;<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I&#8217;m not oblivious to Origen&#8217;s concern, though it seems to me that someone who would return to sin because God is merciful really hasn&#8217;t finished with sin yet. \u00a0And I consider myself the rankest of the rank and file. \u00a0On the other hand Mr. Hanson characterized many of\u00a0the patristic fathers as liars whenever they taught endless punishment (p. 59):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>There can be no doubt that many of the fathers threatened severer penalties than they believed would be visited on sinners, impelled to utter them because they considered them to be more salutary with the masses than the truth itself. So that we may believe that some of the patristic writers who seem to teach endless punishment did not believe it. Others, we know, who accepted universal restoration employed, for the sake of deterring sinners, threats that are inconsistent, literally interpreted, with that doctrine.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I began this second round considering condemnation or judgment after I read <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/John_Walvoord\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John F. Walvoord\u2019s<\/a> commentary on Revelation 20 <a href=\"https:\/\/bible.org\/seriespage\/20-reign-christ\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">online<\/a> (Revelation 20:11, 12 NET).<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Then I saw a large white throne and the one who was seated on it; the earth and the heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them. \u00a0And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne. \u00a0Then books were opened, and another book was opened \u2013 the book of life. \u00a0So the dead were judged <em>(\u1f10\u03ba\u03c1\u1f77\u03b8\u03b7\u03c3\u03b1\u03bd, a form of <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/greek-concordance\/#_\u03ba\u03c1\u03af\u03bd\u03c9\">\u03ba\u03c1\u03af\u03bd\u03c9<\/a>)<\/em> by what was written in the books, according to their deeds.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I\u2019m not aware of \u1f10\u03ba\u03c1\u1f77\u03b8\u03b7\u03c3\u03b1\u03bd translated <em>condemned<\/em> in any <a href=\"http:\/\/biblehub.com\/revelation\/20-12.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">English Bible<\/a>, but that is what Mr. Walvoord took it to mean: \u201cTheir standing posture means that they are now about to be sentenced.\u201d\u00a0 John\u2019s vision continued (Revelation 20:13-15 NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each one was judged <em>(\u1f10\u03ba\u03c1\u1f77\u03b8\u03b7\u03c3\u03b1\u03bd, a form of \u03ba\u03c1\u03af\u03bd\u03c9)<\/em> according to his deeds. \u00a0Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. \u00a0This is the second death \u2013 the lake of fire. \u00a0If anyone\u2019s name was not found written in the book of life, that person was thrown into the lake of fire.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Mr. Walvoord wrote, \u201cThe summary judgment is pronounced in verse 14 that \u2018death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.\u2019 \u00a0In a word, this means that all who died physically and were in Hades, the intermediate state, are here found unworthy and cast into the lake of fire.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I was shocked that the doctrine I&#8217;ve heard my whole life was based on a rationalist assumption that death and hell, or <em>Death and Hades<\/em>, were not entities that might be <em>thrown into the lake of fire<\/em> but merely euphemisms for \u201call who died physically and were in Hades.\u201d\u00a0 And this in an essay where <em>literal <\/em>was used 35 times, <em>literally <\/em>12 times and <em>literalness <\/em>twice, mostly relative to the thousand years, but it was a consistent theme of Mr. Walvoord\u2019s argument.\u00a0 He wrote for example:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>[Barnes] further holds that Revelation 20 should not be taken literally, and interposes the words \u201cas if\u201d before the judgment and resurrection of 20:4 as well as with the binding of Satan. This would seem to be adding to the book, so strongly forbidden in 22:18.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>But Mr. Walvoord\u2019s understanding of Revelation 20:13-15 presents us with the following rewrite:<\/p>\n<table>\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td width=\"319\">\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">Revelation 20:14, 15 NET<\/p>\n<\/td>\n<td width=\"319\">\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">Revelation 20:14, 15 John F. Walvoord<\/p>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td width=\"319\">Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.\u00a0 This is the second death \u2013 the lake of fire. \u00a0If anyone\u2019s name was not found written in the book of life, that person was thrown into the lake of fire.<\/td>\n<td width=\"319\">Then the dead that were in Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.\u00a0 This is the second death \u2013 the lake of fire.\u00a0 No one\u2019s name was found written in the book of life, so they were all thrown into the lake of fire.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<p>Mr Walvoord concluded, without a Scripture quotation or any fear of contradiction:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>If the point of view be adopted that the book of life was originally the book of all living from which have been expunged the names of those who departed from life on earth without salvation, it presents a sad picture of a blank space where their names could have been written for all eternity as the objects of divine grace. Though they are judged by their works, it is evident that their destiny is determined primarily by their lack of spiritual life. When the fact is contemplated that Jesus Christ in His death reconciled the world to Himself (2 Cor. 5:19) and that He died for the reprobate as well as for the elect, it is all the more poignant that these now raised from the dead are cast into the lake of fire. Their ultimate destiny of eternal punishment is not, in the last analysis, because God wished it but because they would not come to God for the grace which He freely offered.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>What about the dead in the sea?\u00a0 I think we can accept that the sea is not an entity that might be thrown into the lake of fire.\u00a0 I would assume that the names of some, up to and including all, were written in the book of life. \u00a0Mr. Walvoord changed the subject:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em>A special problem is introduced by the resurrection of those who were cast into the sea with the presumption that their bodies have disintegrated and have been scattered over a wide area geographically. The special mention of the sea is occasioned by the fact that resurrection usually implies resurrection from the grave. The resurrection of the dead from the sea merely reaffirms that all the dead will be raised regardless of the condition of their bodies.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I would assume though Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire, the names of some of their dead, up to and including all, were written in the book of life.\u00a0 The idea I\u2019m experimenting with is that the new humans born of God are spared while the old humans, in a one for one correspondence, are judged <em>according to their deeds<\/em> and <em>thrown into the lake of fire.<\/em> \u00a0And this,\u00a0because the names in the book of life are not written there by some who came &#8220;to God for the grace which He freely offered&#8221; but by the mercy of God (Romans 9:15, 16 NET):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>I will have mercy on whom I have mercy<\/strong>, <strong>and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion<\/strong>.\u00a0 So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion <em>[e.g., \u201cwhosoever will\u201d]<\/em>, but on God who shows <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/04\/22\/religious-and-righteous-prayer\/#sdfootnote13sym\">mercy<\/a>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2014\/11\/17\/romans-part-54\/\">Back to <em>Romans, Part 54<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2017\/05\/10\/sowing-to-the-flesh-part-2\/\">Back to <em>Sowing to the Flesh, Part 2<\/em><\/a><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><\/div>\n<hr align=\"left\" size=\"1\" width=\"33%\" \/>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn1\"><\/a><sup>[1]<\/sup> <em>Enter through<\/em> (\u03b4\u03b9\u1f70) <em>the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through<\/em> (\u03b4\u03b9\u1fbf, another form of \u03b4\u03b9\u1f70) <em>it\u00a0\u00a0<\/em>(Matthew 7:13 NET).<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn2\"><\/a><sup>[2]<\/sup> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Romans+1%3A28&amp;version=NKJV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Romans 1:28 (NKJV)<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn3\"><\/a><sup>[3]<\/sup> Romans 1:28b (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn4\"><\/a><sup>[4]<\/sup> Ephesians 5:6b (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn5\"><\/a><sup>[5]<\/sup> Ephesians 5:5b (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn6\"><\/a><sup>[6]<\/sup> Ephesians 5:7, 8 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn7\"><\/a><sup>[7]<\/sup> Romans 9:15 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn8\"><\/a><sup>[8]<\/sup> Romans 11:32 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn9\"><\/a><sup>[9]<\/sup> 1 Timothy 1:15b (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn10\"><\/a><sup>[10]<\/sup> Matthew 7:13, 14 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn11\"><\/a><sup>[11]<\/sup> Genesis 4:7b (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn12\"><\/a><sup>[12]<\/sup> Deuteronomy 30:19 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn13\"><\/a><sup>[13]<\/sup> Luke 13:23-25 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn14\"><\/a><sup>[14]<\/sup> John 10:7 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn15\"><\/a><sup>[15]<\/sup> <em>It is no longer good<\/em> (\u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u1f7b\u03b5\u03b9, another form of \u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u03cd\u03c9) <em>for anything except to be thrown out and trampled on by people<\/em> (Matthew 5:13b NET).<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn16\"><\/a><sup>[16]<\/sup> <em>No one was strong enough<\/em> (\u1f34\u03c3\u03c7\u03c5\u03b5\u03bd, another form of \u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u03cd\u03c9) <em>to subdue him<\/em> (Mark 5:4b NET).<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn17\"><\/a><sup>[17]<\/sup> <em>Those who are healthy<\/em> (\u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u1f7b\u03bf\u03bd\u03c4\u03b5\u03c2, another form of \u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u03cd\u03c9) <em>don\u2019t need a physician<\/em>\u2026 (Matthew 9:12b NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn18\"><\/a><sup>[18]<\/sup> <em>Couldn\u2019t<\/em> (\u1f34\u03c3\u03c7\u03c5\u03c3\u03b1\u03c2, another form of \u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u03cd\u03c9) <em>you stay awake for one hour?<\/em> (Mark 14:37b NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn19\"><\/a><sup>[19]<\/sup> <em>I am able<\/em> (\u1f30\u03c3\u03c7\u1f7b\u03c9) <em>to do all things through the one who strengthens me<\/em> (Philippians 4:13 NET).<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn20\"><\/a><sup>[20]<\/sup> John 6:44a (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn21\"><\/a><sup>[21]<\/sup> John 12:32 (NET)<\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn22\"><\/a><sup>[22]<\/sup> <a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/Romans+1:24\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Romans 1:24 (NET)<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/intelligent-torvalds.74-208-171-134.plesk.page\/2012\/07\/25\/romans-part-2\/#_Table6\">Table<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn23\"><\/a><sup>[23]<\/sup> <a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/Romans+1:26\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Romans 1:26 (NET)<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn24\"><\/a><sup>[24]<\/sup> <a href=\"https:\/\/net.bible.org\/#!bible\/Romans+1:28\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Romans 1:28 (NET)<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a id=\"_ftn25\"><\/a><sup>[25]<\/sup> John 1:13 (NET)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Paul wrote believers in Colossae (Colossians 3:1-6 NET): Therefore, if you have been raised with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. \u00a0Keep thinking about things above, not things on the &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/?p=6909\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1945,2719],"tags":[3367,3362,3366,3203,3364,3365,2478,1843,3370,2527,105,182,2526,3369,3368,3371,3372,703,736,737,3363,1694,747,2170],"class_list":["post-6909","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-condemnation-or-judgment","category-section-three","tag-1-timothy-115","tag-colossians-31-6","tag-colossians-37-11","tag-deuteronomy-3019","tag-ephesians-56","tag-ephesians-57-8","tag-genesis-47","tag-john-113","tag-john-107","tag-john-1232","tag-john-310","tag-john-35-7","tag-john-644","tag-luke-1323-25","tag-matthew-713-14","tag-revelation-2011-12","tag-revelation-2013-15","tag-romans-124","tag-romans-126","tag-romans-128","tag-romans-129-32","tag-romans-1132","tag-romans-915","tag-romans-915-16"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6909","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=6909"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6909\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":20581,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6909\/revisions\/20581"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=6909"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=6909"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/religiousmind.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=6909"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}