Tag Archives: Romans 9:11

Who Am I? Part 15

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This is a continuation of my consideration of “5 Bible Passages That Caused Me to Lose My Faith” by Kristi Burke. Her first Bible passage was “Romans 9…the starting point of my deconstruction journey.”1 Though she began with verse 16, I started at the beginning of the chapter to gain some context.

What shall we say then? Paul continued. Is there injustice with God?2 He asked rhetorically in direct response to God’s preference for Jacob over Esau even before they were born or had done anything good or bad.3 But I think one could apply his rhetorical question to his contention that not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel4 as well (Romans 9:14b, 15 NET):

Is there injustice with God? Absolutely not! For he says to Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion” [Table].

According to a note (29) in the NET Paul quoted from Exodus 33:19. At the very moment when people may have thought that in the law they had the ultimate knowledge of good and evil, at the very moment some people were authorized to judge others by that law, God freed Himself from human judgments based on law (Exodus 33:19 NET [Table]).

And the Lord said, “I will make all my goodness pass before your face, and I will proclaim the Lord by name before you; I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious; I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy.”

Ms. Burke said:5

I was an evangelist. So, I believed in going out to my communities and spreading the word and trying to win as many souls as possible, because I looked around and there were people going to hell and I didn’t want that to happen.

And when I was seventeen-years-old I was introduced to the concept of Calvinism. And when I was introduced to this I said, “No way. There is no way that god created people just to go to hell.”

She was offended by a concept called “non-election,” to those who would be the “non-elect.” John Piper was quoted in an interview in “Do the Non-Elect Have a Chance to Repent?” on desiringGod online:

The first truth is, from all eternity God has chosen from among the entire fallen, sinful humanity a people for himself — but not everyone. Thus, this selection is owing to no merit at all in those chosen people. God pursues their salvation not only by effectively achieving the atonement for their sin through Christ, but also by sovereignly overcoming all their rebellion and bringing them to saving faith.

And Daniel R. Hyde wrote in “What Does Predestination Mean for the Non-Elect?”:

A simple reading of Scripture shows that not only are some chosen to salvation in God’s eternal purpose, but some are not. Those Scripture passages that teach God’s election of a particular people unto salvation also teach God’s non-election of others.

Ms. Burke continued:

And then I read Romans 9.

As confirmation that Paul wrote “that god created people just to go to hell,” she quoted Romans 9:16-24 (NIV):

It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy [Table]. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” [Table] But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Ms. Burke presented a “Before” and “After” account of her encounter with Romans 9:

Before

After
Up until the point that I read and studied and chewed on the words in Romans 9, I believed in a god who created all people, gave them free will and that he wanted all people to be saved but he couldn’t violate their free will to save them. And that it was the most loving thing he could do to give people freedom. And within that freedom they could either choose him and go to heaven or they could reject him and go to hell. And that would be entirely their choice. It says starting in verse 16, “It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy,” meaning: there is nothing about you that can come to God and choose. God has to choose you.

She was correct that Romans 9:16 called her initial belief that people had the “freedom” to “either choose [Jesus] and go to heaven or they could reject him and go to hell” into serious question. But consider this:

Romans 9:16 (NET)

Romans 11:32 (NET)
So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.

I consider this Paul’s couplet on God’s mercy in Romans 9-11. Granted, the Greek word translated shows mercy (NIV: mercy) was ἐλεῶντος, a participle of the verb ἐλεέω in the genitive case. And he may show mercy (NIV: he may have mercy) was the verb ἐλεήσῃ another form of the verb ἐλεέω. It was translated may show or may have mercy because it is in the subjunctive mood.6

The subjunctive mood indicates probability or objective possibility. The action of the verb will possibly happen, depending on certain objective factors or circumstances. It is oftentimes used in conditional statements (i.e. ‘If…then…’ clauses) or in purpose clauses.

The Greek word translated so that was ἵνα, making he may show mercy to them all (NIV: he may have mercy on them all) “a purpose or result clause.” The definition of the subjunctive mood continued:7

However if the subjunctive mood is used in a purpose or result clause, then the action should not be thought of as a possible result, but should be viewed as a definite outcome that will happen as a result of another stated action.

In other words, he shows mercy to them all (NIV: he has mercy on them all). The most common limit placed on all here is to assume that Paul meant only those who believe:

For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to…all who believe.

Before her encounter with Romans 9 Ms. Burke might have limited all further still, to all who believe of their own free will:

For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to…all who believe of their own free will.

Part of the beauty of this verse is that the Greek words translated all are τοὺς πάντας in the first clause as well as in the second. So, if we limit all in the second clause, we should place the same limit on the first clause:

For God has consigned all people who believe of their own free will to disobedience so that he may show mercy to…all who believe of their own free will.

That sounds odd, but it points to what Ms. Burke might have wanted it to say. And please don’t think I’m picking on her. Before my encounter with Romans 9 (among other passages) I wanted, even expected, this verse to say:

For God has consigned all people who do not believe of their own free will to disobedience so that he may show mercy to…all who believe of their own free will.

And this is precisely what this verse does not say. So, I want to repeat some of the previous verses while bearing in mind that God shows mercy to all (Romans 9:16-18 NIV).

It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy [Table]. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Ms. Burke responded:8

It says in verse 18: “Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.” When Christians talk about, you have a hardened heart against God, the Bible says that God’s the one that hardened it.

Actually, Paul wrote that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart for a very specific purpose at a specific time: that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. Nothing about that statement implies that God is responsible for every hardened heart. People are quite capable of hardening their hearts all on their own.

Jesus described God’s understanding of marriage to some Pharisees who questioned Him about divorce (Matthew 19:6-8 NET):

“So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command us to give a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her?” Jesus said to them, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of your hard hearts, but from the beginning it was not this way” [Table].

Though God hardened Pharaoh’s heart for a specific purpose at a specific time, it’s always important to remember that God shows mercy to all as well. Paul continued (Romans 9:19-22 NIV):

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” [Table] But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?

The Greek word translated prepared here was κατηρτισμένα, a plural participle of the verb καταρτίζω in the middle voice. The definition of the middle voice in Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions) on ntgreek.org online reads:

The Greek middle voice shows the subject acting in his own interest or on his own behalf, or participating in the results of the verbal action. In overly simplistic terms, sometimes the middle form of the verb could be translated as “the performer of the action actually acting upon himself” (reflexive action).

For example: “I am washing myself.” “I” is the subject of the sentence (performing the action of the verb) and yet “I” am also receiving the action of the verb. This is said to be in the “Middle Voice”. Many instances in the Greek are not this obvious and cannot be translated this literally.

In other words, people prepare themselves for destruction (ἀπώλειαν, a form of ἀπώλεια). But Jesus came to seek and to save the lost9 (τὸ ἀπολωλός) as a singular collective. Ms. Burke responded:10

If He has decided He wants to create you just to destroy you, then He’s going to do that. That’s his right you don’t get to question that. And realizing this changed everything about my perspective of God. Realizing this made me see a god who did not desire people to be saved but instead creates people as puppets, does what he wants with them and then tells them, you’re not allowed to question it. That is just in direct contradiction to any kind of a loving, kind, father god that I was taught growing up in the church. I was fed one version of god who was a loving father but I’m learning about this completely different god who intentionally creates people to go to hell.

This sounds so ominous, but remember Ms. Burke’s original description of “a loving, kind, father god”:

…god…created all people, gave them free will and…he wanted all people to be saved but he couldn’t violate their free will to save them.

So, by definition her “loving, kind, father god” was powerless to accomplish his own will. She continued:

…the most loving thing he could do [is] to give people freedom. And within that freedom they could either choose him and go to heaven or they could reject him and go to hell. And that would be entirely their choice.

Now she has chosen to “reject him and go to hell.” So, again, by her own definition “a loving, kind, father god” must let her go her own way since he is powerless to do otherwise. Frankly, that is not my experience of God, who tracked me down and drew me, sometimes kicking and screaming, to Himself: For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.11

Though Mr. Piper denied (“but not everyone,” he wrote) that God shows mercy to all, he gave an admirable description of that mercy:

Thus, this selection is owing to no merit at all in those chosen people. God pursues their salvation not only by effectively achieving the atonement for their sin through Christ, but also by sovereignly overcoming all their rebellion and bringing them to saving faith.

It becomes clear as one proceeds in Romans 9-11 that the so-called “non-elect” here were Paul’s people, [his] fellow countrymen, who are Israelites12 those of whom he wrote: I am telling the truth in Christ (I am not lying!), for my conscience assures me in the Holy Spirit—I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed—cut off from Christ—for [their] sake13 [Table]. If he believed that they were “intentionally” created “just to go to hell,” he was in a predicament very similar to Ms. Burke’s when she became an “evangelist.”

I believed in going out to my communities and spreading the word and trying to win as many souls as possible, because I looked around and there were people going to hell and I didn’t want that to happen.

She did this (of her own free will?), despite believing in an impotent god: though “he wanted all people to be saved…he couldn’t violate their free will to save them.” I’ll pick this up in another essay.

According to a note (33) in the NET Paul quoted from Exodus 9:16 in Romans 9:17. A table comparing the Greek of Paul’s quotation to the Septuagint follows.

Romans 9:17b (NET Parallel Greek)

Exodus 9:16 (Septuagint BLB) Table

Exodus 9:16 (Septuagint Elpenor)
ὅτι εἰς αὐτὸ τοῦτο ἐξήγειρα σε ὅπως ἐνδείξωμαι ἐν σοὶ τὴν δύναμιν μου καὶ ὅπως διαγγελῇ τὸ ὄνομα μου ἐν πάσῃ τῇ γῇ καὶ ἕνεκεν τούτου διετηρήθης ἵνα ἐνδείξωμαι ἐν σοὶ τὴν ἰσχύν μου καὶ ὅπως διαγγελῇ τὸ ὄνομά μου ἐν πάσῃ τῇ γῇ καὶ ἕνεκεν τούτου διετηρήθης, ἵνα ἐνδείξωμαι ἐν σοὶ τὴν ἰσχύν μου, καὶ ὅπως διαγγελῇ τὸ ὄνομά μου ἐν πάσῃ τῇ γῇ

Romans 9:17b (NET)

Exodus 9:16 (NETS)

Exodus 9:16 (English Elpenor)
For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may demonstrate my power in you, and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth. And for this reason you have been spared in order that I might display in you my power and in order that my name might be proclaimed in all the land. And for this purpose hast thou been preserved, that I might display in thee my strength, and that my name might be published in all the earth.

2 Romans 9:14a (NET)

3 Romans 9:11a (NET) Table

4 Romans 9:6b (NET)

7 Ibid.

9 Luke 19:10b (NET)

11 Romans 11:32 (NET)

12 Romans 9:3b, 4a (NET)

13 Romans 9:1-3a (NET)

Apostles and Prophets, Part 1

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As I considered the relationship of Moses the prophet and Aaron the priest in Numbers 16 it occurred to me that my religion all but outlaws apostles and prophets. I even wrote that in the essay.  But as I turned to Jesus’ response to the argument he walked down the mount of transfiguration into I thought better of taking on an argument over apostles and prophets in that essay.  Still, the urge to do so persisted.

I suppose that everyone who is called by God, born from above[1] and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit walks down from that experience into 2,000 years of theological arguments with the implicit task of choosing sides or adjudicating between them.  Generally, I try to avoid theological arguments.  Time to study the Bible is precious.  If I spend it on arguments, I am not led by the Holy Spirit but by the people who started the arguments.

But since I have quipped to friends that one way of viewing Evangelicalism is as a mutiny of pastors and teachers against apostles and prophets I have apparently chosen a side without serious thought or consideration. I’m obligated now to be led around by the nose for a time by those who defend the assertion that apostles and prophets are no longer necessary or authorized by God.

My starting position was: why would anyone hope to be church in a hostile environment without such marvelously gifted people? As usual, once I took the time to formulate a coherent question the Holy Spirit was ready with an answer (Jeremiah 31:33, 34 NET):

“But I will make a new covenant with the whole nation of Israel after I plant them back in the land,” says the Lord.  “I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds.  I will be their God and they will be my people.  People will no longer need to teach their neighbors and relatives to know me.  For all of them, from the least important to the most important, will know me,” says the Lord.  “For I will forgive their sin and will no longer call to mind the wrong they have done” [Table].

I asked an older friend if these verses were the goal, aim, purpose, end (τέλος) of the church, the body of Christ. (My friend doesn’t care much for church as a translation of ἐκκλησία.)  The initial response was a qualified, “No, this is for the nation of Israel.”  But that position softened as Paul’s words came to mind: Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among them and participated in the richness of the olive root…[2]  My own impression that these verses do serve as τέλος for the ἐκκλησία began to harden as I recalled Paul’s letter to the Ephesians (Ephesians 4:7, 11-13 NET):

But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of the gift of Christ….It was he who gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God – a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ’s full stature.

Prior to this approach I would have lined up the above verses right beside Paul’s mention of the same in his letter to the Corinthians as evidence of an ongoing role for both apostles and prophets (1 Corinthians 12:27, 28 NET):

Now you are Christ’s body, and each of you is a member of it.  And God has placed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, gifts of healing, helps, gifts of leadership, different kinds of tongues.

When I quipped about mutiny I had assumed that first, second and third were meant as a ranking of authority.  This time I could hear the possibility of a temporal ordering of arrival (and departure?) on the scene.  The net effect for me is not unlike voir dire.[3]

Many years ago I was impaneled for jury selection on a criminal case. As I sat across from the defendants in the courtroom there wasn’t a single doubt in my mind that they were guilty.  How else could they have gotten so far through the system?  After the defense attorneys in particular had a go at me during voir dire I didn’t have a clue whether the defendants were guilty or not.  I can only assume that the prosecutors had a similar impact on any who walked in assuming the defendants were innocent because the police and courts only exist to oppress and victimize black people. Voir dire is a very clever procedure for detecting and highlighting bias.

So I began this investigation with my biases exposed and confused. I typed “apostles no longer necessary” into Google and “No Prophets or Apostles Today”[4] by Lori Eldridge appeared at the top of the list.  The first step in her argument was to distinguish between gift and office.

Gift

Office
…the “gift” of prophecy (defending and speaking forth the ESTABLISHED Word of God)… …the “Office” of Prophet (speaking forth NEW revelations from God and establishing scripture).
The gift of prophecy is still in effect… …but not the office of Prophet…

The same can be said for the gift vs the office of Apostle…
…and the former to build new churches on that foundation already established. …the latter being for the purpose to lay the foundation for the Church…

The gift of apostle and prophet is fairly easy to find in the Bible. But to each one of us grace (χάρις) was given (ἐδόθη, a form of δίδωμι) according to the measure of the gift (δωρεᾶς, a form of δωρεά) of Christ.[5] It was he who gave (ἔδωκεν, another form of δίδωμι) some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers…[6]  The office of apostle and prophet is a bit more elusive.  But to say that there is no office of apostle and prophet in the Bible is not quite the same as saying that there was an office of apostle and prophet but it exists no longer.  So I’ll spend some time trying to track down the meaning of office of apostle or prophet.

And it came to pass, that while [a priest (ἱερεύς) named Zacharias[7]] executed the priest’s office (ἱερατεύειν, a form of ἱερατεύω) before God in the order of his course, According to the custom of the priest’s office (ἱερατείας, a form of ἱερατεία), his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.[8]  The concept priest’s office is not two words in Greek but one: ἱερατεύειν in the first instance and ἱερατείας in the second.  I should point out that ἱερατεύειν was translated serving as priest in NKJV and ἱερατείας as of the priesthood.  There is a trend toward eliminating the word office over time.  Be that as it may the priest’s office helps clarify the meaning of office.

The requirements, duties, rights and privileges of priests were spelled out in great detail in the law. The law makes the office – official. And those of the sons of Levi who receive the priestly office (ἱερατείαν, another form of ἱερατεία) have authorization (ἐντολὴν, a form of ἐντολή) according to the law to collect a tithe from the people, that is, from their fellow countrymen, although they too are descendants of Abraham.[9] In the New Testament in Modern Speech (MSNT) Hebrews 5:1-4 is translated as follows:

For every High Priest is chosen from among men, and is appointed to act on behalf of men in matters relating to God, in order to offer both gifts and sin-offerings, and must be one who is able to bear patiently with the ignorant and erring, because he himself also is beset with infirmity.  And for this reason he is required to offer sin-offerings not only for the people but also for himself.  And no one takes this honorable office (τιμὴν, a form of τιμή) upon himself, but only accepts it when called to it by God, as Aaron was.

The KJV translated τιμὴν as honour.  The translators of the more recent translation added the concept office to that honour.  But I find no fault with the concept of a priestly office carefully delineated in law.  So the question comes to mind, what law authorizes the office of apostle?

Lori Eldridge began as follows:

The following shows us the requirements of the replacement for Judas:

Acts 1:21-26, “Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become A WITNESS WITH US OF HIS RESURRECTION.”

This quotation is from the NIV. It is preceded by: For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be made desolate, And let no man dwell therein: and, His office (ἐπισκοπὴν, a form of ἐπισκοπή) let another take.[10]  At least that’s how ἐπισκοπὴν was translated in the ASV and the NKJV.  The KJV translated it bishopric, and the NIV place of leadership.  But if I am going to find a law authorizing an office of apostle, the word of an apostle seems a likely place to start—on the surface of it.  But watch what happens if I expand the context.

Jesus had told Peter, Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait there for what my Father promised, which you heard about from me.  For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.[11]  Instead, prior to receiving the Holy Spirit, Peter took it upon himself to replace one of the Apostles Jesus had chosen[12] (Luke 6:12-16 NET).

Now it was during this time that Jesus went out to the mountain to pray, and he spent all night in prayer to God.  When morning came, he called his disciples and chose twelve of them, whom he also named apostles:  Simon (whom he named Peter), and his brother Andrew; and James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

So what did Jesus do? He made a personal appearance on the road to Damascus and chose Saul, a Pharisee who persecuted the early believers.  I can’t say that Jesus deliberately confounded Peter’s rule for apostle selection, because I believe that God’s prerogative—I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion[13]—trumps all law.  I can say that Saul was not one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us, Peter’s stated prerequisite that Ms. Eldridge quoted but did not emphasize in all capital letters: For one of these (ἕνα τούτων) must become (γενέσθαι,a form of γίνομαι) A WITNESS WITH US OF HIS RESURRECTION.

In John’s vision on Patmos the wall of the holy city, Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God[14] was described as having twelve foundations, and on them are the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.[15]  I wonder if those who believe that Peter created (and limited) the office of Apostle as stated in Acts 1:21-26 also believe that Matthias will be the twelfth name on those foundations.  If it seems like I’m lobbying for Paul, I am not.

In the past I have lobbied for Paul. But now that I know him better and Jesus through his writing I hope that the twelfth name is Judas Iscariot.  I can’t imagine a more beautiful memorial to the grace and mercy of God in Jesus Christ.  And I think Paul would agree with me: so that God’s purpose in election would stand, not by works but by his calling…[16] So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy.[17] For the gifts (χαρίσματα, a form of χάρισμα) and the call of God are irrevocable.[18]

And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins.”[19]

But perhaps the office of Apostle precedes Peter’s questionable rule as ἐπισκοπὴν (translated office in the ASV) precedes it.  I’ll look into that in the next essay.  For now I want to wrap-up by saying that this is not an enjoyable pastime for me.

Lori Eldridge was “raised in a cult as a child,” and “saved through Hal Lindsey’s Late Great Planet Earth.”[20]  It seems that she hears or reads sermons or religious writings and the Holy Spirit brings Scripture to mind that contradicts what the preacher preached or wrote.  Though her faith allows her to declare those the Holy Spirit contradicts false prophets and teachers[21] and mine does not, I might still be better served by trying to befriend her rather than by disputing with her.

People will no longer need to teach their neighbors and relatives to know me.  For all of them, from the least important to the most important, will know me, the Lord promised through Jeremiah.  It seems fitting here to highlight the equalizing power of the Bible.  With it, led by the Holy Spirit, Lori Eldridge challenges prophets and teachers and declares them false.  With the Bible, led by the Holy Spirit, I can question the wisdom of Peter’s actions and whether his word established a rule for an office of apostle.  None of that changes if apostles and prophets are still active (and necessary) in the ἐκκλησία.

Apostles and Prophets, Part 2

[1] John 3:3 (NET)

[2] Romans 11:17 (NET)

[3] http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=2229

[4] http://www.endtime-prophets.com/noproph.html

[5] Ephesians 4:7 (NET)

[6] Ephesians 4:11 (NET)

[7] Luke 1:5 (KJV)

[8] Luke 1:8, 9 (KJV)

[9] Hebrews 7:5 (NET)

[10] Acts 1:20 (ASV)

[11] Acts 1:4, 5 (NET)

[12] John 6:70, 71 (NET)

[13] Romans 9:15 (NET)

[14] Revelation 21:10 (NET)

[15] Revelation 21:14 (NET)

[16] Romans 9:11 (NET)

[17] Romans 9:16 (NET) Table

[18] Romans 11:29 (NET)

[19] Romans 11:26, 27 (NET)

[20] http://www.endtime-prophets.com/statement.html

[21] http://www.endtime-prophets.com/

Condemnation or Judgment? – Part 5

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I want to continue considering the eternal gospel the angel flying directly overhead “evangelized” (εὐαγγελίσαι, a form of εὐαγγελίζω)[1] in its context.  It is one of three messages by three different angels: one “evangelized,” another declared (λέγων, a form of λέγω),[2] and another declared (λέγων, a form of λέγω) in a loud voice.

Three Angels
Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, and he had an eternal gospel (εὐαγγέλιον)[3] to proclaim (εὐαγγελίσαι, a form of εὐαγγελίζω) to those who live on the earth –  to every nation, tribe, language, and people.  He declared in a loud voice:

Revelation 14:6, 7a (NET)

 A second angel followed the first, declaring (λέγων, a form of λέγω):

Revelation 14:8a (NET)

 A third angel followed the first two, declaring (λέγων, a form of λέγω) in a loud voice:

Revelation 14:9a (NET)
“Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment (ἡ ὥρα τῆς κρίσεως αὐτοῦ) has arrived, and worship the one who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water!”

Revelation 14:7b (NET)

 “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great city!  She made all the nations drink of the wine of her immoral (πορνείας, a form of πορνεία)[4] passion.”

Revelation 14:8b (NET)

 “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and takes the mark on his forehead or his hand, that person will also drink of the wine of God’s anger that has been mixed undiluted in the cup of his wrath, and he will be tortured with fire and sulfur in front of the holy angels and in front of the Lamb.  And the smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever, and those who worship the beast and his image will have no rest day or night, along with anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 14:9b-11 (NET)
This requires the steadfast endurance of the saints – those who obey God’s commandments and hold to their faith in Jesus.

Revelation 14:12 (NET)

At first I included the final statement with the declaration of the third angel only.  Then I realized that the eternal gospel the first angel “evangelized” was not exactly “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ before you die or burn in hell for all eternity.”  Nor was it 1 Corinthians 15:1-8.  In fact, it didn’t mention Jesus at all.  It occurred to me that seeing and hearing an angel evangelize an eternal gospel like this might also require some steadfast endurance of those who hold to their faith in Jesus (Galatians 1:8 NET).

But even if we (or an angel from heaven) should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be condemned to hell (ἀνάθεμα)![5]

I assumed that the fall of Babylon might require the same endurance for reasons that were not yet clear.  And at present I don’t know whether—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to their faith in Jesus—define the word saints or qualify which saints are under consideration here.  I’ll consider the torture of those who worship the beast in its own essay.

I related the two judgments to the three angels like this:

Three Angels
Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead…

Revelation 14:6, 7 (NET)

 A second angel followed the first…

Revelation 14:8 (NET)

 A third angel followed the first two…

Revelation 14:9-11 (NET)
Then I looked, and a white cloud appeared, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man!  He had a golden crown on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.

Revelation 14:14 (NET)

 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.

Revelation 14:17 (NET)
Then another angel came out of the temple, shouting in a loud voice to the one seated on the cloud, “Use your sickle and start to reap, because the time to reap has come, since the earth’s harvest is ripe!”

Revelation 14:15 (NET)

 Another angel, who was in charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to the angel who had the sharp sickle, “Use your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes off the vine of the earth, because its grapes are now ripe.”

Revelation 14:18 (NET)
So the one seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

Revelation 14:16 (NET)

 So the angel swung his sickle over the earth and gathered the grapes from the vineyard of the earth and tossed them into the great winepress of the wrath of God.  Then the winepress was stomped outside the city, and blood poured out of the winepress up to the height of horses’ bridles for a distance of almost two hundred miles.

Revelation 14:19, 20 (NET)

Despite everything I’ve been through I wanted to relate the outcome of the two judgments to the messages of the three angels like this:

Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, and he had an eternal gospel (εὐαγγέλιον) to proclaim (εὐαγγελίσαι, a form of εὐαγγελίζω) to those who live on the earth – to every nation, tribe, language, and people.  He declared in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment (ἡ ὥρα τῆς κρίσεως αὐτοῦ) has arrived, and worship the one who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water!”

Revelation 14:6, 7 (NET)

 A second angel followed the first, declaring (λέγων, a form of λέγω): “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great city!  She made all the nations drink of the wine of her immoral (πορνείας, a form of πορνεία) passion.”

Revelation 14:8 (NET)

 

 A third angel followed the first two, declaring (λέγων, a form of λέγω) in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and takes the mark on his forehead or his hand, that person will also drink of the wine of God’s anger that has been mixed undiluted in the cup of his wrath, and he will be tortured with fire and sulfur in front of the holy angels and in front of the Lamb.  And the smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever, and those who worship the beast and his image will have no rest day or night, along with anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 14:9-11 (NET)
They sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb: “Great and astounding are your deeds, Lord God, the All-Powerful!  Just and true are your ways, King over the nations!”

Revelation 15:3 (NET)

 …they blasphemed the name of God…and they would not repent and give him glory.

Revelation 16:9b (NET)
“Who will not fear you, O Lord, and glorify your name, because you alone are holy?  All nations will come and worship before you for your righteous acts have been revealed.”

Revelation 15:4 (NET)

 …they blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, since it was so horrendous.

Revelation 16:21b (NET)

 They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.

Revelation 16:11 (NET)
Then I looked, and a white cloud appeared, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man!  He had a golden crown on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.  Then another angel came out of the temple, shouting in a loud voice to the one seated on the cloud, “Use your sickle and start to reap, because the time to reap has come, since the earth’s harvest is ripe!”  So the one seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

Revelation 14:14-16 (NET)

 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.  Another angel, who was in charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to the angel who had the sharp sickle, “Use your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes off the vine of the earth, because its grapes are now ripe.”  So the angel swung his sickle over the earth and gathered the grapes from the vineyard of the earth and tossed them into the great winepress of the wrath of God.  Then the winepress was stomped outside the city, and blood poured out of the winepress up to the height of horses’ bridles for a distance of almost two hundred miles.

Revelation 14:17-20 (NET)
Then I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had conquered the beast and his image and the number of his name. They were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps given to them by God.

Revelation 15:2 (NET)

 Then I saw another great and astounding sign in heaven: seven angels who have seven final plagues (they are final because in them God’s anger is completed).

Revelation 15:1 (NET)

Judgment and condemnation would be easier for me to grasp if:

1) The first angel said, “Fear God and give him glory…and worship the one who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water!”
2) Then in response to that people said, “Great and astounding are your deeds, Lord God, the All-Powerful!  Just and true are your ways, King over the nations!  Who will not fear you, O Lord, and glorify your name, because you alone are holy?  All nations will come and worship before you for your righteous acts have been revealed.”
3) Then in response to that one like a son of man…swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped; that is, those who feared God and gave Him glory.
4) Then those who feared God and gave Him glory were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps given to them by God.

Or conversely that:

1) Those who did not fear God but worshipped the beast and his image…
2) Were those who blasphemed the name of God, who would not repent and give Him glory…
3) And they were tossed…into the great winepress of the wrath of God…
4) To face the seven final plagues.

But that isn’t what’s revealed here, is it?  Those who sang the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb probably conquered the beast and his image and the number of his name[6] by refusing to worship him, his image or take the mark.  What looked to John like their “reaping” by one like a son of man, will probably look like mass executions to their contemporaries on earth.  Their “reaping” is immediately preceded by Revelation 14:13 (NET):

Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: ‘Blessed are the dead, those who die in the Lord from this moment on!’”  “Yes,” says the Spirit, “so they can rest from their hard work, because their deeds will follow them.”

It is after they find themselves standing by the sea of glass, holding harps given to them by God[7] that they give glory[8] to God—Great and astounding are your deeds, Lord God, the All-Powerful!  Just and true are your ways[9]—and can’t imagine how or why anyone would not fear Him—Who will not fear you, O Lord, and glorify your name, because you alone are holy?[10]

Meanwhile, back on the earth, those who worshiped the beast, and were tossed…into the great winepress of the wrath of God,[11] when the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was permitted to scorch people with fire, and they were scorched by the terrible heat, yet (καὶ)[12] they blasphemed the name of God, who has ruling authority over these plagues, and they would not repent and give him glory.[13]  When the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast so that darkness covered his kingdom, and people began to bite their tongues because of their pain, they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless[14] (καὶ) they still refused to repent of their deeds.[15]  And finally, when Babylon the great was remembered before God, and was given the cup filled with the wine made of God’s furious wrath,[16] gigantic hailstones, weighing about a hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people, but (καὶ) they blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, since it was so horrendous.[17]

The Greek word καὶ is usually translated and (see the KJV, NKJV, ASV, DNT, and YLT).  Three times the translators of the NET tried to create a contrast that may not be there in the text.  Without that contrast there is a very simple and obvious story here.  All deserved God’s wrath.  Those who received his mercy (albeit through refusing the mark of the beast and suffering execution) feared Him and glorified Him.  Those who received the wrath they deserved cursed Him and would not repent of their deeds.

God’s judgment is not about my righteousness.  It does not reflect or demonstrate my righteousness, but his.  The key here is in the song of Moses and the Lamb: you alone are holy.[18]  Why do you call me good? Jesus answered a question with another.  No one is good except God alone.[19]  For a long time I’ve thought that Jesus was asserting his divinity here in a backhanded, double reverse sort of way.  Now it seems so clear that He was fully embracing his humanity, walking humbly, led by the Spirit, dependent on the Holy Spirit’s love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.[20]  No one is good except God alone, Jesus said.

We are told explicitly who will worship the beast (Revelation 13:7, 8 NET):

The beast was permitted to go to war against the saints and conquer them.  He was given ruling authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation, and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed.

In other words, the judgment (and the condemnation, for that matter) was made even before they were born or had done anything good or bad (so that God’s purpose in election would stand, not by works but by his calling).[21]  So John on Patmos had a vision confirming the most difficult words Paul wrote (Romans 9:14-18 NET):

What shall we say then?  Is there injustice with God?  Absolutely not!  For he says to Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”  So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy.  For the scripture says to Pharaoh: “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may demonstrate my power in you, and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.”  So then, God has mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy, and he hardens whom he chooses to harden.

My religious mind screams, “That’s not fair!”  But Paul heard my religious mind, or maybe his own (Romans 9:19-21 NET):

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault?  For who has ever resisted his will?”  But who indeed are you – a mere human being – to talk back to God?  Does what is molded say to the molder, “Why have you made me like this?”  Has the potter no right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special use and another for ordinary use?

And my religious mind says, “No!  Hell, no!”  But the new man following the Spirit, hears the Lord Jesus say, “deny [your]self, take up [your] cross, and follow me,”[22] and listens as He prays to our Father in heaven, “not my will but yours be done.”[23]  Let God be proven true, Paul wrote, and every human being shown up as a liar, just as it is written: “so that you [i.e., God, Paul quoted David at prayer here] will be justified in your words and will prevail when you are judged.”[24]  And as I fully embrace my humanity and truly believe that it does not depend on [my] desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy, I can hear something else in a fresh and new way (Romans 11:32-36 NET):

For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.  Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God!  How unsearchable are his judgments and how fathomless his ways!  For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?  Or who has first given to God, that God needs to repay him?  For from him and through him and to him are all things.  To him be glory forever!  Amen.

They sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb (Revelation 15:3, 4 NET):

“Great and astounding are your deeds, Lord God, the All-Powerful!  Just and true are your ways, King over the nations!  Who will not fear you, O Lord, and glorify your name, because you alone are holy?  All nations will come and worship before you for your righteous acts have been revealed.”

Condemnation or Judgment? – Part 6

Back to Torture, Part 3

Back to Torture, Part 5

Back to Cult Prostitutes

[6] Revelation 15:2 (NET)

[7] Revelation 15:2 (NET)

[8] Revelation 14:7 (NET)

[9] Revelation 15:3 (NET)

[10] Revelation 15:4a (NET)

[11] Revelation 14:19 (NET)

[12] NET Note: “Here καί (kai) has been translated as ‘yet’ to indicate the contrast present in this context.”

[13] Revelation 16:8, 9 (NET)

[14] NET Note: “Grk ‘and they did not repent.’ Here καί (kai) has been translated as ‘but nevertheless’ to express the contrast here.”

[15] Revelation 16:10, 11 (NET)

[16] Revelation 16:19b (NET)

[17] Revelation 16:21 (NET)

[18] Revelation 15:4 (NET)

[19] Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19 (NET)

[20] Galatians 5:22, 23 (NET)

[21] Romans 9:11 (NET)

[22] Matthew 16:24 (NET)

[23] Luke 22:42b (NET)

[24] Romans 3:4 (NET)